Digital Printing Press - Price Comparison and More

[fancom]

Hello all,

First of all, I'm so happy to find this forum. I have been looking for something like this for weeks now. As a newcomer to the printing industry, I have a few stuff that desperately need your help.

1. What are the basic technical concepts/terms I need to know about digital printing? What websites are there for dummies? I have tried Wikipedia and Google but they don't help much.

2. If I want to print high-resolution photos in large quantities and in different sizes (4x6, 5x7, 18x20... or photobooks, and cards...), which of the following printers are best: Xerox iGen, HP Indigo, NexPress, Oce VarioPrint, InfoPrint, and Xeikon? I know Shutterfly is using the Xerox and HP machines so just wondering if they are the best.

3. What are the prices of the above-mentioned machines? I found the following site and it said the Igen3 is starting at $580K apiece:

http://bigpicture.net/index.php?openchan=yes&channelnum=7&content=2805&displaynow=yes

4. I'm planning to purchase or lease 1 to 2 for my firm but unsure of the purchasing and the leasing options. Could you please differentiate them for me?

Thank you all so much!

Best,
fancom

 

[smatros]

what print volume you intend to do? who are you major clients?
I would suggest you hire someone who knows the stuff and guides you through first steps. The machines you mention are maybe a bit too big for the first steps.

 

[Craig]

Fancom,
You really need to know what your volumes are. Without that information you are really shooting in the dark.

 

[fancom]

what print volume you intend to do? who are you major clients?
I would suggest you hire someone who knows the stuff and guides you through first steps. The machines you mention are maybe a bit too big for the first steps.

We're still gathering info to see how big the demand is. Our target is not businesses but consumers in another country whose approx. 15M of the population has enough disposable incomes to purchase printing products other than 4x6 prints. My guess is that the volume will be big, just not sure how big it's gonna be.

Thanks!

 

[smatros]

the population has enough disposable incomes to purchase printing products other than 4x6 prints. My guess is that the volume will be big, just not sure how big it's gonna be.

So your main product will be pictures / photobooks?

 

[fancom]

So your main product will be pictures / photobooks?

Yes, that's correct.

 

[smatros]

If photography is your main intention then Xerox is probably the best way to pursue. As you are more a start up, DC260 or X700 is the way to go with in my opinion. If you wish to spend more, or need more speed, go with 8000AP.

 

[fancom]

If photography is your main intention then Xerox is probably the best way to pursue. As you are more a start up, DC260 or X700 is the way to go with in my opinion. If you wish to spend more, or need more speed, go with 8000AP.

I did a little bit of research on the X700 and found that the price for used ones is about 50K apiece. Is that the normal price? What about the 8000AP?

Thanks so much!

 

[StrikTenn913]

If you're going to look at the 8000AP, you should consider Canon's models (imagePRESS C6000/C6000VP/C700VP). I have seen output from both and they are very competitive. Pricing is also very competitive. You won't sacrifice imaging quality for speed with those machines.

If your volume is too low (under 100K monthly) the Canon may not be right for you.

 

[TnT]

If you are doing Photobooks make sure the supplier has *very* good colour management expertise available, and more importantly understands your market. Photos and Photobooks are not 'Production Colour' if your vendor does not understand this, you need to find one that does.

I have personally found both Xerox and Canon to not understand the Photobook market at all.

Oil base machines, ( Xerox 5000AP and up) will cause you problems from the finish point of view, 'flashing' an image will show up the oil and inconsistency that generates, your customers will not look fondly on this.

I no longer own a machine, but did own a Xerox, the baby brother of the 700 the 5065, it was a nightmare, could not handle the stock we required, (I understand the 700 has addressed this, but I wouldn't be wanting to bet my business on it).

We moved to the ImagePRESS 7000VP, (outsourcing the printing), beautifully sharp images, colour consistency was WOEFUL, uptime of the press was pretty bad as well. Generally reliability was a significant problem.

We have moved to the HP Indigo 5500. One word. Impressed.

There is a reason that HP have a stranglehold on the Photo market. They currently have 75% market share and that is growing. I now know why.

My recommendation is outsource your printing. If you are new to game, build a good relationship with a good printer, get your volumes up and once you understand the ins and outs of printing, (and no it's not just 'hit the print button'), then look to bringing the printing in house.

 

[fancom]

If you are doing Photobooks make sure the supplier has *very* good colour management expertise available, and more importantly understands your market. Photos and Photobooks are not 'Production Colour' if your vendor does not understand this, you need to find one that does.

I have personally found both Xerox and Canon to not understand the Photobook market at all.

Oil base machines, ( Xerox 5000AP and up) will cause you problems from the finish point of view, 'flashing' an image will show up the oil and inconsistency that generates, your customers will not look fondly on this.

I no longer own a machine, but did own a Xerox, the baby brother of the 700 the 5065, it was a nightmare, could not handle the stock we required, (I understand the 700 has addressed this, but I wouldn't be wanting to bet my business on it).

We moved to the ImagePRESS 7000VP, (outsourcing the printing), beautifully sharp images, colour consistency was WOEFUL, uptime of the press was pretty bad as well. Generally reliability was a significant problem.

We have moved to the HP Indigo 5500. One word. Impressed.

There is a reason that HP have a stranglehold on the Photo market. They currently have 75% market share and that is growing. I now know why.

My recommendation is outsource your printing. If you are new to game, build a good relationship with a good printer, get your volumes up and once you understand the ins and outs of printing, (and no it's not just 'hit the print button'), then look to bringing the printing in house.

Thanks so much for the recommendation! But I'm not sure in the market we're currently targeting, there is an outsourcing partner that can handle the big volume.

If we can't outsource, is the Indigo 5500 a bit too much to own?

 

[TnT]

Really, really hard question to answer, that depends on your business. The Indigo is a huge investment, not just in capital outlay but also in the expertise to run it. If you have the volume to support it, that investment is an entirely worthwhile one.

Unfortunately I believe digital print technology at this point is around 2 years behind customer expectation. Especially at the lower end of the digital presses, (ie less than $100k AUD), where these machines in all reality are just heavy duty office copiers, very very good office copiers, but not very very good digital presses.

The only machines that are capable of meeting what customers expect when you put the word 'Photo' or 'Photographic' in front of a product are the big machines. People will always compare a photographic process to your digital print process and say 'why doesn't it look like this', educating your customers is a huge task.

The trap that you fall into with the big machines is if you don't have the volume to keep the machine running as they are designed to, (lots of volume), they start giving all sorts of problems because they're sitting there being far too idle.

I know that's not much of an answer but I can tell you this, choosing the wrong machine will hamper your business growth, quite possibly more than any other decision in your business. I'm unfortunately speaking from personal experience here, however that has now been corrected, and so has business growth.

 

[jego]

TNT, thanks for the info given out to us as a beginner in photobook industry . I notice there's not many folks here actually discuss the workflow or own a photobook business. just reading this and the year this thread was open is 2008. Is there a community forum that heavily discuss about this industry which i could probably miss out?

 

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Hope it went well for you. Let us know how it went and what you went with.