Digital vs. Offset Printing for my new business

[Rugger7]

Hello Printing Professionals,

I'm starting a postcard marketing company and am wondering if you can help me get started in choosing a printer that would be best suited. So just a little background I already run a business and we utilize EDDM postcard marketing. I really think it is an amazing tool for business building and now plan on 'vertically integrating' my existing business to include a EDDM marketing for other businesses. So whereas my cost per piece was approx 29c for 6x12" postcards I hope to (A) lower my cost per piece and also (B) sell EDDM services at a profit. So I already know about EDDM but I do not have a background in printing. To be competitive and successful I'm going to have a to choose a printer that will minimize the cost per piece as I can already see there are EDDM marketing companies cutting prices to narrow margins.

So I've read about the differences between digital and offset printing and it appears I can get an entry-level digital printer cheaper and with a lower learning curve, but my cost per piece will probably be higher at least if I'm doing any significant volume at all.

So I'm wondering can anyone tell me what an example of a good entry level digital printer is and possibly a good entry level offset printer for my needs?

- Full color post cards with UV finish
- At the moment I'm planning to start simple offer sizes 6 x 12 or 8.5 x 11
- Anticipated volume is 50k-100k cards per month once I get off the ground and hopefully I'll be doing many more in years to come at which time I can look to upgrade.

I'm hoping to get the cost per piece around 5c or less for 6x12 and 6c or less for 8.5 x 11 (excluding the initial cost of equipment), is that doable?

 

[dabob]

Ohhhhh . . . where does one begin . . .

1st are you just talking production price or actual true cost including overhead etc.

2nd for a digital shop you would need a digital press . . . a cutter/slitter . . and a UV coater at a minimum I would guess a capitol investment of 100,000 bucks or so . . . oh and a pre press "system" and software . . .anywhere from 2 - 4 thousand plus a continuing cost of software . . . and then you would have "click charges" we're paying about 7 cents/4 color side but you could get two maybe 3 cards from a sheet

3rd . . . for an offset shop . . you cannot expect to buy an offset press, i.e. a ryobi 4 color on the used market like this
http://tinyurl.com/jaa2yzv
30 thousand and you would need an qualified employee to run it, plus the UV coater, cutter/slitter maybe about the same initial cost but more economical for "longer" runs since you won't have click charges but you will have ink, plate, and pressroom supplies instead . . .

So, IMHO the short answer is no . . . . sorry bout that but printing is a VERY capital intensive proposal . . . .

 

[Rugger7]

Okay thanks for humoring me, I know it is capital intensive and I'm not averse to risk or running in the red while I build it. I'm not talk about overhead or anything. So let's just say I'm going to go the offset route and let's say I were to buy that $30,000 Ryobi or something like it and you estimate after the cutter and UV coater and software I'd be looking to be in at about $100k or so?

Then, let's say I'm just doing 6 x 12 cards with minimum runs of 5000 and some bigger clients doing 25,000 / 50,000 / 100,000 how much would my per piece cost be at those volumes? I'm just talking the paper, the ink, the plates, uv coating, anything else that goes into the production. Not wages or leases etc. My goal is to be mailing 250,000 a month for my already existing business alone (this may be 5 -10 years down the road but decreasing the cost per piece and adding another source of cash flow by vertically integrating will help me get there faster I think..).

I might plan to start the business just using a local printer I already use and wait and see if I can get my volume up to a million or two, so I'm just looking to learn and see what the margins would be like before I start and set prices.. need to figure out what is profitable and what isn't. I pay about 11c per piece for a 6 x 12 color front b&w back uv coated at the moment 5000 runs so I am guessing his cost / card is probably no more than 6c.. maybe I'm wrong, could be 9c or could be 1c.. that's what I'm hoping to learn. I know he uses offset printing on those.

 

[dabob]

Lets start by guessing ink and plates at about 50 bucks . . . I don't have a DI press so thats a bit hazy . . you can get 2 - 8.5 x 11 cards per sheet . . . lets play with that one because on that press you get a lousy cut out of a sheet . . .2500 12 x 18 sheets 1250 x $239 per thousand coated cover -= about 300 bucks for the paper . . . so your at 6 cents each and you don't have any ink on the paper yet . . now you have to cut down the parent sheets, run them through the press twice (onece each side), coat them on the UV, and then do the final trim . . . hard costs for 5000 8.5 x 11 2 sided postcards would be about 7 cents each . . . if you could purchase your paper in LARGE quantities there would be some savings (maybe 20-25%) which would get them down to about 5.25 cents . . .hard costs -no overhead, no labor, and in a one man shop (assuming youve got a pressman working for nada) you will have about 5 man hours into it . . you have to figure something so lets say 20 bucks an hour . . add another 2 cents to the 7 or 5.25 cents each and your at a minimum of a nickel each . . plus your capital expense - Oh wait we haven't figured out rent or power yet have we . . cuz if your going to be buying a lot of paper for the discount you gonna need a place to keep it outa the rain . . .

Like I said the short answer is no . . . don't do it . . . .

 

[EZPower]

Reality check. To start a business you need to know about it more than the next guy. When vendors start selling you equipment, how would you know if the equipment is in sound order or will actually do what is promised. Yes, vendors will promise you things. Things that are not true. Employees. How would you know who to hire, if you don't know enough about the business, what questions would you ask? I have seen many owners hire experts. Enough said.

Do yourself a favor. Stick to what you know, and farm out the rest. I have known plenty of successful broeckers who had clients and made more money having jobs done by others.

 

[Rugger7]

Lets start by guessing ink and plates at about 50 bucks . . . I don't have a DI press so thats a bit hazy . . you can get 2 - 8.5 x 11 cards per sheet . . . lets play with that one because on that press you get a lousy cut out of a sheet . . .2500 12 x 18 sheets 1250 x $239 per thousand coated cover -= about 300 bucks for the paper . . . so your at 6 cents each and you don't have any ink on the paper yet . . now you have to cut down the parent sheets, run them through the press twice (onece each side), coat them on the UV, and then do the final trim . . . hard costs for 5000 8.5 x 11 2 sided postcards would be about 7 cents each . . . if you could purchase your paper in LARGE quantities there would be some savings (maybe 20-25%) which would get them down to about 5.25 cents . . .hard costs -no overhead, no labor, and in a one man shop (assuming youve got a pressman working for nada) you will have about 5 man hours into it . . you have to figure something so lets say 20 bucks an hour . . add another 2 cents to the 7 or 5.25 cents each and your at a minimum of a nickel each . . plus your capital expense - Oh wait we haven't figured out rent or power yet have we . . cuz if your going to be buying a lot of paper for the discount you gonna need a place to keep it outa the rain . . .

Like I said the short answer is no . . . don't do it . . . .

Is what you are talking about for a digital printer or an offset printer?

I'm more interested in offset printing I hear it is more economical for large runs. Let's say I was running 100,000 - 8.5 x 11 postcards in offset printing how much would that run for hard costs?

 

[Rugger7]

Reality check. To start a business you need to know about it more than the next guy. When vendors start selling you equipment, how would you know if the equipment is in sound order or will actually do what is promised. Yes, vendors will promise you things. Things that are not true. Employees. How would you know who to hire, if you don't know enough about the business, what questions would you ask? I have seen many owners hire experts. Enough said.

Do yourself a favor. Stick to what you know, and farm out the rest. I have known plenty of successful broeckers who had clients and made more money having jobs done by others.

Everybody gets to where they are from where they were.. I'm 6 years into my business at day 1 I knew 0.. I knew a little after a year, a good bit after 2-3 years, now I'd consider myself an expert. I'm sure there is a lot to learn, that's why I'm here. If it wasn't a profitable business there wouldn't be so many people running printing businesses..

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

If it wasn't a profitable business there wouldn't be so many people running printing businesses..

Why are so many shops going out of business, then? Stick to what you know. Even as someone with the offset and digital equipment, we still outsource longer runs as it is a PITA with our normal workflow and it is much more fun to just have someone else do the work. 6 years into printing you may know it all and figure out it is better to just outsource it. Let someone else stay until 2 am working on your 100,000 postcards!

 

[dabob]

Is what you are talking about for a digital printer or an offset printer?

I'm more interested in offset printing I hear it is more economical for large runs. Let's say I was running 100,000 - 8.5 x 11 postcards in offset printing how much would that run for hard costs?

That is offset printing . . . that's what bruceprint was referring to . . if you knew printing at all you would know that plates and ink are an offset item and toner is digital . . . and 100,000 8.5 x 11 "postcards" . . . we have a 30 inch Heidelberg Speedmaster and all the associated equipment ant that would be a job we would probably outsource to a 40 inch shop . . . so those presses start at about 225,000 plus sundry equipment add another couple of hundred thousand . . so now your at the half million range - rent/buy a building cuz this stuff takes room . . we've got 5,000 square feet and couldn't fit one of those in our buildings . . . you would be better off putting all down on apple and a mix of good income stocks and going fishing . . . which by the way is where I plan to be in about 1.5 years . . . fishing and learning how to turn bourbon into urine . . .

oh and just for grins 100,000 on a "digital" printer . . . not a prayer unless its a multi million dollar ink jet web like this one . . .

http://tinyurl.com/jqqcdbg

poke around this page and see how big it is . . . .

I know this is an old joke but . . . you know how to make a million dollars in printing . . . start with two and throw 1/2 of it away . . .

 

[jrsc]

I agree with everyone else that you are probably a little over your head to start. Not that it's not doable as you learn but it's going to be harder than you thought. I have customers doing a higher volume than you in house and decided is was significantly less expensive to have us do the work for them. 29c seems does seem expensive so you are right to want to get the price down. We sell to our customers for about half that. 5c-6c, you are dreaming. If you went and started doing it on your own you would be very lucky to even be as low as the 29c when you add up all the cost, plus its time consuming. I would estimate 200k in equipment to do all that effectively and it's not a one time equipment purchase. Equipment wears out and technology changes so you will be buying equipment every few years. Sure you could get into it cheaper but you will spend so much time printing the cards you will never have time to sell anything. There's also quality to look at. There is quite a large learning curve to actually get something to look right, even with a digital printer. Are you ok with 6 months of product looking like shit while you figure out what you are doing? If you are really want to do this you have a lot more research ahead of you before you should even consider actually buying something. Most people after they try something like this they determine it is better to outsource. Remember most profitable print shops only profit 1-3% so it's not as profitable as you think. If you are good at the EDDM and the selling part you will probably make more money in the long run focusing on that because it will cost you more in lost sales from focusing on the production than you will generally save by doing production yourself.

 

[Rugger7]

I agree with everyone else that you are probably a little over your head to start. Not that it's not doable as you learn but it's going to be harder than you thought. I have customers doing a higher volume than you in house and decided is was significantly less expensive to have us do the work for them. 29c seems does seem expensive so you are right to want to get the price down. We sell to our customers for about half that. 5c-6c, you are dreaming. If you went and started doing it on your own you would be very lucky to even be as low as the 29c when you add up all the cost, plus its time consuming. I would estimate 200k in equipment to do all that effectively and it's not a one time equipment purchase. Equipment wears out and technology changes so you will be buying equipment every few years. Sure you could get into it cheaper but you will spend so much time printing the cards you will never have time to sell anything. There's also quality to look at. There is quite a large learning curve to actually get something to look right, even with a digital printer. Are you ok with 6 months of product looking like shit while you figure out what you are doing? If you are really want to do this you have a lot more research ahead of you before you should even consider actually buying something. Most people after they try something like this they determine it is better to outsource. Remember most profitable print shops only profit 1-3% so it's not as profitable as you think. If you are good at the EDDM and the selling part you will probably make more money in the long run focusing on that because it will cost you more in lost sales from focusing on the production than you will generally save by doing production yourself.

29c is my mailed cost for 5000 6 x 12" cards. It is 17.6c postage and 11c printing.. this doesn't include my time and gas to take them from the print shop to the post office. I was hoping to get the printing down to 5c or 6c - and hopefully 8.5 x 11" at that price so I could mail a bigger card at 22-23c. Plus, I'm just looking at it as if I'm going to sell EDDM and let's say I can get 40-45c per piece from some people that don't price shop all that well, that is all fine and dandy but at the end of the day I know I'm losing the business of people who do price shop well and also even if I'm going to charge a higher rate if I could save money on the printing I'd stand to profit more.

It is all math at some point it definitely makes sense to start your own print shop. I don't know what point that is and no I do not have any intention to sink $100k+ into equipment before I get off the ground, but if I snag a few big fish and a bunch of medium fish and in 2 years I'm mailing 3M pieces per month I'm sure at that point it is going to make sense to invest in a printing press and print in house. I would guess 1-2M pieces per month would be about where it makes sense.

But also the reason I do 6x12" is because that 11c / piece is his very best deal IMO. I would like to go bigger seeing as postage stays the same. I don't know anyone to beat that price on the printing, but his other prices aren't as good as that so 8.5 x 11 is not even a size he offers and the closes thing 8 x 12 is about 15c / piece at 5000. When you do the math it is about the same in cost per area of the card but I don't anticipate the return to exactly be a linear equation. 6 x 4 cards are 24in2 and 6 x 12 cards are 72in2 but I don't expect to see a 3x better response on the bigger cards. Maybe 1.5-2x but not 3x so it makes sense to pay 1.5-2x as much but not 3x.

 

[Neko2]

You could lease a digital press, UV coater and cutter, have a reasonable footprint and only be out the monthly cost and termination fees if you stop.

Xante - cheap to buy, expensive to run. Nice and small.
Konica minolta 1085/11000 - cheap to buy (100k) average to run
Canon - 1100 More expensive to buy (200k) similar price to run as KM - may be cheaper clicks if you commit to volume
Xerox - iGen etc More expensive than Canon but may be cheaper clicks if you commit to volume
Ricoh - I have no experience with

On our current equipment paper and clicks would get you a 5cent 6x12 run 3up on 13x19. I have no idea what UV will cost.

You'll need a service contract and a plan that includes toner with the type of coverage I'm imagining you'll want.

Call those companies and ask for a demo, tell them what you're after and weigh the solutions they offer.

You'll have to learn color management, prepress and a lot about your particular machine but you could probably make a go of it until you could afford to hire someone with experience.

 

[Rugger7]

Can someone explain to me what is a click fee?

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Can someone explain to me what is a click fee?

Dude, this is way too much to start on your own. If you want to start printing, go work for someone else for 2-3 years and see how they do it.

The people in this thread are being very nice, but I don't think we need to spend anymore time telling you the same answer 3 different ways.

 

[MailGuru]

I hate to play the devils advocate here, but, regardless of all of your planning, decisions on offset versus digital, UV coaters, Cutters/Slitters, in-house production versus outsource, estimated capital outlay, etc, your entire venture seems to be predicated on the mass production of EDDM mail. I've been in the mail business for over 40 years, and, if there is one "constant", when dealing with the US Postal Service, it's that nothing is ever constant.

EDDM (Every Door Direct Mail) was started several years ago as an "experiment" by the USPS. It's primary objective was to make it as simple and as easy as possible for your average business owner to be able to do their own direct mail advertising, thus, increasing the USPS's overall mail volume. The experiment failed miserably (in that respect) due to the fact that EDDM mail is still subject to all the standard USPS regulations with regard to what can, and can't be advertised through the US Mail, what constitutes a "flat" as opposed to a "letter" sized mail piece, and, standard Flat flexibility and rigidity standards.There are also minimum, as well as maximum, quantity regulations (at least 200 pieces or 50 pound minimum, and no more than 5,000 pieces per day, per zip code.

Add to that, the fact that, in order to qualify for EDDM mail, the person mailing must spend their own money to transport the EDDM mail to the actual delivery post office that delivers to the carrier routes in those zip codes ("DDU" or, Destination Delivery Unit).

It is the complexity of these regulations, as well as the transportation expense, that actually back-fired on the USPS, and caused it to miss it's original objective of the business owner being able to do his own mail (which, is why a print/service organization - such as yourself is now doing the EDDM mail instead of the business owner).

A couple of things to consider:

(1) What happens to all your money, equipment, and business plan if the USPS just up and decides to discontinue EDDM because it failed to meet it's objectives?

(2) Will all your business be local, or, will you branch out and go state-wide, or, even national? You talk about pushing your volume to 250,000 per month and above. How many DDU's will you have to truck your mail in to? Since it would be virtually impossible for you to drive to all those DDU's yourself, how much will it cost you to pay a carrier (private carrier, Fed-X Freight, UPS, etc.) to truck and deliver to those DDU's?

(3) Since EDDM mail does not contain an actual address of the recipient, it is not "track-able". There will be instances (check other postings on this forum) where one of your customers will get either "no" or "very little" response and is very unhappy. They may even accuse you of taking their money, but, not dropping any mail (at least, that's the way you will perceive it). You can only verify that you presented it to the Post Office. Since it's not track-able, the Post Office will not be able to verify that it was delivered. In order to save the client, you may find yourself issuing credits, or, even re-printing and re-mailing at cost.

Anyway, I wish you all the best on your new venture. Just wanted to make sure you go in to it with your eyes open.

-Best

MailGuru

 

[Rugger7]

I hate to play the devils advocate here, but, regardless of all of your planning, decisions on offset versus digital, UV coaters, Cutters/Slitters, in-house production versus outsource, estimated capital outlay, etc, your entire venture seems to be predicated on the mass production of EDDM mail. I've been in the mail business for over 40 years, and, if there is one "constant", when dealing with the US Postal Service, it's that nothing is ever constant.

EDDM (Every Door Direct Mail) was started several years ago as an "experiment" by the USPS. It's primary objective was to make it as simple and as easy as possible for your average business owner to be able to do their own direct mail advertising, thus, increasing the USPS's overall mail volume. The experiment failed miserably (in that respect) due to the fact that EDDM mail is still subject to all the standard USPS regulations with regard to what can, and can't be advertised through the US Mail, what constitutes a "flat" as opposed to a "letter" sized mail piece, and, standard Flat flexibility and rigidity standards.There are also minimum, as well as maximum, quantity regulations (at least 200 pieces or 50 pound minimum, and no more than 5,000 pieces per day, per zip code.

Add to that, the fact that, in order to qualify for EDDM mail, the person mailing must spend their own money to transport the EDDM mail to the actual delivery post office that delivers to the carrier routes in those zip codes ("DDU" or, Destination Delivery Unit).

It is the complexity of these regulations, as well as the transportation expense, that actually back-fired on the USPS, and caused it to miss it's original objective of the business owner being able to do his own mail (which, is why a print/service organization - such as yourself is now doing the EDDM mail instead of the business owner).

A couple of things to consider:

(1) What happens to all your money, equipment, and business plan if the USPS just up and decides to discontinue EDDM because it failed to meet it's objectives?

(2) Will all your business be local, or, will you branch out and go state-wide, or, even national? You talk about pushing your volume to 250,000 per month and above. How many DDU's will you have to truck your mail in to? Since it would be virtually impossible for you to drive to all those DDU's yourself, how much will it cost you to pay a carrier (private carrier, Fed-X Freight, UPS, etc.) to truck and deliver to those DDU's?

(3) Since EDDM mail does not contain an actual address of the recipient, it is not "track-able". There will be instances (check other postings on this forum) where one of your customers will get either "no" or "very little" response and is very unhappy. They may even accuse you of taking their money, but, not dropping any mail (at least, that's the way you will perceive it). You can only verify that you presented it to the Post Office. Since it's not track-able, the Post Office will not be able to verify that it was delivered. In order to save the client, you may find yourself issuing credits, or, even re-printing and re-mailing at cost.

Anyway, I wish you all the best on your new venture. Just wanted to make sure you go in to it with your eyes open.

-Best

MailGuru

You do know about EDDM - BMEU right? You are describing EDDM retail. I would be using EDDM BMEU for the business, you just go to a BMEU and can drop off 5000+ pieces for various clients and various zip codes. The only difference is you have to get permit and have your indica on the postcards. I would not be giving anybody credits for their crappy copy.

I know their standards - they don't even adhere to them. I have mailed 6 x 8 cards which don't fit the standards and they take them because the guy at the desk doesn't know all their guidelines. Why on earth would they prefer bigger pieces to smaller pieces? I don't know, but technically they should have made me bring in 6.5 x 8 or else 6 x 11.5" at a minimum but they take them. I get mail from people all the time not meeting the .007 in thickness guideline, looks like it was printed on two sheets of copy paper. They don't even know, but I do know. I think they'll continue EDDM personally and if they don't then I would have to just switch to saturation. It would take a little bit of doing but it would not kill the business. Saturation mail is not incredibly different than EDDM. I'd probably have to raise prices to compensate but if EDDM is gone then everyone is going to raise prices on such services.

 

[MailGuru]

You do know about EDDM - BMEU right? You are describing EDDM retail. I would be using EDDM BMEU for the business, you just go to a BMEU and can drop off 5000+ pieces for various clients and various zip codes. The only difference is you have to get permit and have your indica on the postcards. I would not be giving anybody credits for their crappy copy.

I know their standards - they don't even adhere to them. I have mailed 6 x 8 cards which don't fit the standards and they take them because the guy at the desk doesn't know all their guidelines. Why on earth would they prefer bigger pieces to smaller pieces? I don't know, but technically they should have made me bring in 6.5 x 8 or else 6 x 11.5" at a minimum but they take them. I get mail from people all the time not meeting the .007 in thickness guideline, looks like it was printed on two sheets of copy paper. They don't even know, but I do know. I think they'll continue EDDM personally and if they don't then I would have to just switch to saturation. It would take a little bit of doing but it would not kill the business. Saturation mail is not incredibly different than EDDM. I'd probably have to raise prices to compensate but if EDDM is gone then everyone is going to raise prices on such services.

There is no such thing as "EDDM - BMEU". There is no other EDDM classification except "EDDM - Retail" (Even though it is actually Standard Mail, it does not appear in the "Commercial" sections of the DMM, only the Retail Sections. Now, it is possible that your BMEU is ALSO the DDU that handles the zips in your mailing (some DDU's also double as a BMEU). Whether you have a permit with a permit indicia imprint is only applicable as to how you pay for your postage.

You are indeed fortunate that the USPS employees at your BMEU are not fully trained on EDDM regulations, and, are allowing you to evade standard EDDM preparation and mail entry requirements. However, as a mailing agent, you are responsible for, and, when you sign the PS-3587, are basically testifying, that you are in compliance:

"The mailer hereby certifies that all information furnished on this form is accurate, truthful, and complete; that the mail and the supporting documentation comply with all postal standards and the mailing qualifies for the prices and fees claimed; and that the mailing does not contain any matter prohibited by law or postal regulation."


I have worked with many different BMEU acceptance personnel at many different BMEU's over the years. And, yes, the USPS continually shoots itself in the foot year after year by changing regulations and adding new services products (such as EDDM), and doing a very poor job of sufficiently training their people. But, that's no excuse for taking advantage of their ineptitude. As a mailer, it is YOUR responsibility to know, understand, and comply with current regulations.

 

[dabob]

Well Rugger . .. while you have been asking this forum about getting into this business, you seem to think that you are informed enough to ignore all the opinions given to date . . . I will warn you that mailguru is very correct and someday you will show up to drop your non conforming mail pieces and be sent home with them . . . . that will really impact your profit and shop workflow whilst you reprint it in a rush to make the mail date you promised . . . all I will say now is . . . .

Good Luck . . . .

 

[Chasfinch]

WOW printing makes us all so bitter and jaded.
I say go for it if you feel you have something unique. BUT I would pay close attention to what years of experience has said here. Several people that have chimed in here and it is not their first rodeo. I think you said at one point you you where looking to get the postcards down to 6 cents. forget about digital your click rate would be almost that 2 sided if you got a good deal. BUT maybe digital is the way for you to go. Get an old indigo or something of that nature and a WELL trained tech to deal with that digital press. UV coater and some sort of cutter and off to the races.

or you could just outsource...........

 

[Rugger7]

Well Rugger . .. while you have been asking this forum about getting into this business, you seem to think that you are informed enough to ignore all the opinions given to date . . . I will warn you that mailguru is very correct and someday you will show up to drop your non conforming mail pieces and be sent home with them . . . . that will really impact your profit and shop workflow whilst you reprint it in a rush to make the mail date you promised . . . all I will say now is . . . .

Good Luck . . . .

No that's not true I don't think I know it all but out of all the responses people have offered about 25% was anything of value and the other 75% has just been baseless "you can't do it, you'll fail, think again, etc. etc. too expensive" I'm not asking the shark tank to fund me I'm just looking for info and thanks to the people who've provided any useful info. It's like you'll are scared of one more person in the printing or mailing business will run you out or something. I never said it was cheap, easy, or without a learning curve. I didn't ask you to assess my business plan or provide any details about what I think my competitive advantage over existing EDDM providers might be.

Really I have no intentions on starting out printing my own cards, I'm just looking down the road to think if I would get to X volume I should look into making this investment.

All I really asked was some insight on the cost to print postcards and some info on that was provided and Thank you for that all though I still am not sure what the most cost effective route would be. It seems like offset printing is the way to go since the best prices I can find are from offset printers. The question is simply the volume at which it becomes beneficial and how beneficial it might be.

there are 2 different types of EDDM because the very first time I ever did EDDM I got an indica and later found out that was unnecessary. You can send more than 5000 pieces if you drop it off at a BMEU paid under your permit. All you have to do is google EDDM or go to USPS website and you can see there are two types of EDDM. 5000 limit and drop off at route which supplies carrier route is Retail, BMEU is for 5000+ going to mulitple zip codes. Also 17.6c vs 15.4c


I didn't trick anyone into accepting my 6 x 8 cards it was my first few runs and I did not know they were not the right size and neither did the guy who accepted them.