Do Printers Still Need Service from their Ink Supplier ? ?

[D Ink Man]

G7 has been a game changer, no doubt in reference to color and print control. This is a singular good point Kaoticor. Thank you.

 

[Green Printer]

Green Printer, who is your ink supplier and what brand name inks do you use, if I may ask?

We still do contract ink testing for a number of companies. I have signed nondisclosure agreements. So the answer is no I can not tell.

Second note one of the questions I ask an ink tech is what is conductivity. If I get the you must keep your conductivity at ???? I immediately show them the door.

 

[Kaoticor]

We still do contract ink testing for a number of companies. I have signed nondisclosure agreements. So the answer is no I can not tell.

Second note one of the questions I ask an ink tech is what is conductivity. If I get the you must keep your conductivity at ???? I immediately show them the door.

Found this extremely amusing lol!

 

[D Ink Man]

You are absolutely correct on that one Green. The conductivity should be dictated and prescribed by your fount supplier, whether it's a 1 or 2 step. Ideally, your fount supplier should additionally supply you with a titration value level based on varying percentages of etch and replacement. This would be after a good diagnosis of the raw water that you are using, which normally runs from 50-200 micromhos from the tap. Along with conductivity, the corresponding ph value should also be included in the titrated percentage tables.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. if the tech is recommending a uhmo value before performing a fingerprint of your pressroom, show 'em the door.

One last note, in my experience, I have seen fountain solutions run as low as 800 and as high as 3800. So again, it depends on the fount products. Good servicing to all! D

 

[Cold]

what is conductivity.

A measurement of the ability of water to transfer electricity, in the context of our industry. A guitar maker would have a different definition.

Fact> Ink is less consistent today than it was 10-20-30.... years ago. Why? There are less people doing less quality control/assurance checks than previously. Raw materials are not being checked like they once were. The reliance on Certificates of Analysis from the raw material supplier, single page, mostly irrelevant data filled in have replaced the hands on thorough checking once done by ink company quality control staffs. Random spot checks have replaced the tedious chores that were once done.

D Ink Man,
This statement is not fact. At least not in my realm. I hope it is not a fact in yours either, but rather a statement of frustration.

Ink, both mine and the competitors I monitor, is magnitudes more consistent and technically superior to what I made and saw 10 and 20 years ago.

The materials used are much more consistant and the control of quality is much more serious and sophisticated.

I rarely have actual tech calls these days, in large part due to making a much better product. Mostly, my calls now, consist of collaborating or educational activities.

I understand your frustration at the changing of the industry in regards to the business models employed. I went through it with one of the large corporations. And I will have to admit, they make a much, much better ink today compared to when I worked there.

Today I work for an independent regional ink company that exists on the fact that we service the daylights out of our customers. But again most of that service today is in collaboration with, not troubleshooting.

Best,


Cold

 

[D Ink Man]

A measurement of the ability of water to transfer electricity, in the context of our industry. A guitar maker would have a different definition.



D Ink Man,
This statement is not fact. At least not in my realm. I hope it is not a fact in yours either, but rather a statement of frustration.

Ink, both mine and the competitors I monitor, is magnitudes more consistent and technically superior to what I made and saw 10 and 20 years ago.

The materials used are much more consistant and the control of quality is much more serious and sophisticated.

I rarely have actual tech calls these days, in large part due to making a much better product. Mostly, my calls now, consist of collaborating or educational activities.

I understand your frustration at the changing of the industry in regards to the business models employed. I went through it with one of the large corporations. And I will have to admit, they make a much, much better ink today compared to when I worked there.

Today I work for an independent regional ink company that exists on the fact that we service the daylights out of our customers. But again most of that service today is in collaboration with, not troubleshooting.

Best,


Cold

Cold, I guess it's a matter of opinion. The first company I worked for employed quality control techniques that have not even remotely been approached by the three companies I have worked for after. I know what is going on in the ink industry at most companies in regards to quality of quality control. If the company you work for practices techniques that in your opinion are A1, then fine.

As far as you stating my statement isn't fact and is one of frustration, I take great exception to that. Your experience and again opinions are fine to present but please avoid contradiction of my offerings. I would appreciate that.

And for further fodder to have another voice, all I need to do is use a reply from this original post on 4.24.12. It was presented by TheProcessIStheproduct and the following is the reply. Please read thoroughly. It is not the deciding vote to our differents in opinion, but it is another voice.
>>> I thought this was an academic discussion about ink companies service levels, but if you want to talk about my personal ink usage; I ran Toyo for a long time, because at the time it was supposed to be the best product on the market, it was way more expensive and I had local support. Guess what, the ink and support sucked, every can, even from the same lot, was completely different in tack, body, and color... Now I am running INX, not the most expensive, but not the cheapest either, it runs consistent, dries good, and I have been happy for about 3 years. If someone drops off some free ink I may test it, but it would really have to nock my socks of to want to switch. I do not get hung up on price alone, you have to look at price, usage, waste, runnability, consistency and sometimes that does not mean the cheapest ink checks all the boxes. <<<

One last thing, I will admit my experience goes back further than 20 years. I'd tell you exactly how long, but as you know, a woman never tells her age. Respectfully, D Ink Man

 

[gordo]

One last thing, I will admit my experience goes back further than 20 years. I'd tell you exactly how long, but as you know, a woman never tells her age. Respectfully, D Ink Man

D Ink Man isn't?
I mean D Ink Man is of the female persuasion?

best gordo

 

[D Ink Man]

O
. ------->
o

 

[D Ink Man]

Are printing, ink, consumables now commodities in todays world? Is this a significant part of the ruin of the Print Planet? Scary to me. How about you?

 

[Sustainable]

Are printing, ink, consumables now commodities in todays world? Is this a significant part of the ruin of the Print Planet? Scary to me. How about you?

YES, Price is the name. Very little else matters.

 

[D Ink Man]

Contrasting points of view will be heard from responsible spokesmen.

 

[Joe Duffy]

YES, Price is the name. Very little else matters.

I want partners, not suppliers. When I call a partner, I have a problem that myself and my peers could not solve or I am looking for answers to questions from someone that knows not only my business but others as well. If it is just price, then you have no right to complain of bad product or longer than expected make readies or falling profit levels.
My old boss used to purchase second paper because it was "so cheap"... for months I keep records of web breaks, bad paper, web down times, ink issues, etc and presented it to him. When compared to the normal paper we all liked, production was down by 10% per shift with second paper, he changed his mind after adding numbers.

If you really believe that it is just a matter of being the cheapest wins then by all means continue to go that way, I think people still pay for repeatable results and inferior products do not generate consistant results IMHO.

 

[Sustainable]

I want partners, not suppliers. When I call a partner, I have a problem that myself and my peers could not solve or I am looking for answers to questions from someone that knows not only my business but others as well. If it is just price, then you have no right to complain of bad product or longer than expected make readies or falling profit levels.
My old boss used to purchase second paper because it was "so cheap"... for months I keep records of web breaks, bad paper, web down times, ink issues, etc and presented it to him. When compared to the normal paper we all liked, production was down by 10% per shift with second paper, he changed his mind after adding numbers.

If you really believe that it is just a matter of being the cheapest wins then by all means continue to go that way, I think people still pay for repeatable results and inferior products do not generate consistant results IMHO.

Joe you see value in a partner most shops do not.

PM