Expanded Gamut

[Keith41]

I am looking to implement an expanded gamut workflow. Would anyone have any suggestions for first steps? Also any suggestions for background research? Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[gordo]

I am looking to implement an expanded gamut workflow. Would anyone have any suggestions for first steps? Also any suggestions for background research? Thanks in advance for your help.

There are 8 main strategies.
In order from simplest to most complex they are:

1) Increase solid ink density.

2) Use FM screening.

3) Big Gamut CMYK

4) CMYK plus "bump" (touch plate) color.

5) Swing process colors.

6) Big "H" Pantone Hexachrome.

7) Small "H" Hexachrome.

8) CMYK plus "extended" process colors.

More info here: Quality In Print: Hi-Fi color - 8 strategies to implementation

best, gordon p

 

[Keith41]

Thanks Gordon, This is helpful. I appreciate any other help or information sources that you can direct my way.

Keith

 

[Luc St-Pierre]

If you choose to go CMYK plus red and/or green and/or blue, color separation will become a main issue. Forget about Photoshop and alike softwares for that. You may want to look into ICISS (Interactive Color Independent Separation Software), a simple search on google will lead you there. You may also have to shop around for a color management software that will aloow you to create nColor models ICC profiles, and be sure that your proofer's gamut will be as wide or wider than your new colorspace.

 

[PantherMac]

7) Small "H" Hexachrome.

Hey Gordo, isn't it considered generically "Hi-Fidelity Printing", if it's not Pantone Branded?

Big fan of Glynn Hartley and the ICISS product. Used it for several years in a past life.
Glynn is a great trainer, and the product is amazing. Very impressive (even if it does take a bit to learn the right 'touch').

Specialcolor - Worldwide distributors and implementers of color separation and color correction tools

- Mac

 

[gordo]

Hey Gordo, isn't it considered generically "Hi-Fidelity Printing", if it's not Pantone Branded?

IMHO, Hi-Fidelity printing is the broad term (like facial tissue) - Pantone is just one brand/implementation method (e.g. Kleenex).

"Small H" Hexachrome (the 7th type I listed) Unlike "Big H" or the official Pantone Hexachrome, uses standard CMYK inks plus Orange and Green inks to expand Gamut. This method is popular in the label and packaging markets.

best, gordon p

 

[PantherMac]

"Small H" Hexachrome (the 7th type I listed) Unlike "Big H" or the official Pantone Hexachrome, uses standard CMYK inks plus Orange and Green inks to expand Gamut. This method is popular in the label and packaging markets.

What about orange and purple 6/C combo's? Swapping PMS109 for the Yellow channel (not an additional 'bump' plate, still 4/C, just no longer process), that sort of thing? Where does that apple fall? I've always found it difficult to exclude a given process (like those mentioned), and found it easier to be generic and lump them all in together. The other processes mentioned seem so very narrowly defined, for my taste at least (why I like the iciss product, it's completely agnostic).


- Mac

 

[gordo]

What about orange and purple 6/C combo's? Swapping PMS109 for the Yellow channel (not an additional 'bump' plate, still 4/C, just no longer process), that sort of thing? Where does that apple fall? I've always found it difficult to exclude a given process (like those mentioned), and found it easier to be generic and lump them all in together. The other processes mentioned seem so very narrowly defined, for my taste at least (why I like the iciss product, it's completely agnostic).
- Mac

I guess you didn't read the blog posting that I included in my original post.

For example: "What about orange and purple 6/C combo's?" well that's covered in # 8) CMYK plus "extended" process colors. And swapping PMS109 for the Yellow channel (not an additional 'bump' plate, still 4/C, just no longer process) is covered in method #5) Swing process colors.

The eight methods that I listed are the 8 basic ways I know of for doing "HiFi" color. They are not narrowly defined except in the case of #6, Pantone's Hexachrome.
Which method is best in any particular case is shop and project dependent. How one implements it and what hues are added, or swapped are also not defined - they are up to the shop. This is just a listing of different options.
I don't understand your problem with it.

gordon p

 

[Ian Mackenzie]

Keith -

We actually have a product that can help you here and that is installed and implemented successfully at web and sheet printers across the continent.

We see Expanded Gamut Printing as something that the industry will migrate towards over the next few years. Heck, even Sharp Electronics believes this as they are the first to commercially release "Expanded Gamut Television. Sharp believes that consumers actually want to see imagery in greater color and detail. They have embarked on both print and TV ads to deliver this message.

Our product - the ICEserver - will help you expand gamut while also saving ink and reducing waste. Please let us know if you would like any more info.

FineEye | ICEserver Expanded Gamut

It's not just about increasing density. That has been possible for decades. The trick is to balance density with the ability to maintain gray balance and tonality. We have done that.

Thanks,
Ian

 

[O-blakz]

First Login

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Hi!

Newbie here... wanna share and gain from all of you guys... It's nice to be here...

 

[KAM465]

Ant suggestions on Extended Gamut Ink to use to help get closer to colors containing Pantone Purple.
We tried CMYKOGV and CMYKOGB and CMYKOGV substituting Rhodamine for Magenta. The last option helps but still not close enough to get the custoer to sign off on High Chroma Purples.

 

[gordo]

Ant suggestions on Extended Gamut Ink to use to help get closer to colors containing Pantone Purple.
We tried CMYKOGV and CMYKOGB and CMYKOGV substituting Rhodamine for Magenta. The last option helps but still not close enough to get the custoer to sign off on High Chroma Purples.

I'm not clear on your problem. If the color contains Pantone Purple...why not just use Pantone Purple as the extra color?

Or, if you have the CIELab values for the purples that you're trying to hit you could use an application like ColorThink to see if they are within gamut for a specific 5th process color.

thx, gordo

 

[KAM465]

I'm not clear on your problem. If the color contains Pantone Purple...why not just use Pantone Purple as the extra color?

Or, if you have the CIELab values for the purples that you're trying to hit you could use an application like ColorThink to see if they are within gamut for a specific 5th process color.

thx, gordo

We are printing packaging for a private label manufacture and there are 80+ PMS Colors required in addition to CMYK that are required to print their entire product line. The goal is to create 1 or 2 color strategies that would work for the lion share of the colors. The colors expand the entire color gamut;Oranges, Reds, Blues, Greens, Violets and Purples. And as youe would suspect the Purples are giving us the most problems. Because we have a requirement for Fade resistance, Heat resistance and Aqueous coatings, we are unable to use the standard Pantone Purple becuase the pigments will burn out.

Just trying to get some feedback on what others are doing to expand their color gamut in the Purples. With the Violet we are using we have done well with most of the Reflex and 072 shade blues but have issues with some of the cleaner blues. We currently run Warm Red instead of Orange and Pantone Green, we have worked with a Blue but this shifts the Reflex shades to print too clean.

Some blues want black but the Violet prints ar the same screen angle. Do you have any suggestions to overcome this issue? It has been suggested to run a higher screen ruling on the Violet or Black but we have not tried. We have been working with Esko consultant.

 

[gordo]

We are printing packaging for a private label manufacture and there are 80+ PMS Colors required in addition to CMYK that are required to print their entire product line. The goal is to create 1 or 2 color strategies that would work for the lion share of the colors.[SNIP]
Just trying to get some feedback on what others are doing to expand their color gamut in the Purples. With the Violet we are using we have done well with most of the Reflex and 072 shade blues but have issues with some of the cleaner blues. We currently run Warm Red instead of Orange and Pantone Green, we have worked with a Blue but this shifts the Reflex shades to print too clean.

Some blues want black but the Violet prints ar the same screen angle. Do you have any suggestions to overcome this issue? It has been suggested to run a higher screen ruling on the Violet or Black but we have not tried. We have been working with Esko consultant.

Well, Esko has their Kaleidoscope product so they should have some suggestions based on that experience. They should be able to define an extended process color set that achieves the 80 or so PMS colors you need to hit. If a specific PMS ink does not work for you in terms of print ability then you might try using the color's CIELab values and having your ink vendor formulate the hue you need using a different pigment base.

To extend purples the most used extended process colors are:
Reflex Blue
Blue 072
2735
Violet
2592
PMS Purple

I don't see how running a higher screen ruling will help.

best, gordo

 

[KAM465]

Well, Esko has their Kaleidoscope product so they should have some suggestions based on that experience. They should be able to define an extended process color set that achieves the 80 or so PMS colors you need to hit. If a specific PMS ink does not work for you in terms of print ability then you might try using the color's CIELab values and having your ink vendor formulate the hue you need using a different pigment base.

To extend purples the most used extended process colors are:
Reflex Blue
Blue 072
2735
Violet
2592
PMS Purple

I don't see how running a higher screen ruling will help.

best, gordo

Thanks Gordo

Esko and our ink supplier have been very helpful, just trying to get a feeling for what others are doing. Much easier to ask for help then to it is to spend more time and money chasing what others have already tried.

The reason for the higher screen ruling on one of the colors I am told would allow us to run both the Violet or Blue as well as the black and avoid the screen angle conflict.

thanks again for your imput.

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Research TOYO's Kaleido Inkset, expanded gamut using just 4 inks. We have used this on a few projects and have found the inks perform extremely well on various substrates(uncoated sheets & plastics.) We have run ink densities .8 - 1.0 higher than normal without any substantial TVI.
Regards,
Todd

 

[gordo]

Research TOYO's Kaleido Inkset, expanded gamut using just 4 inks. We have used this on a few projects and have found the inks perform extremely well on various substrates(uncoated sheets & plastics.) We have run ink densities .8 - 1.0 higher than normal without any substantial TVI.
Regards,
Todd

Yes Kaleido might do it. See #3 here:

Quality In Print: Hi-Fi color - 8 strategies to implementation

Could you post the CIELab values for the Kaleido primary and secondary (RGB process overprints) process hues?

best, gordo

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Could you post the CIELab values for the Kaleido primary and secondary (RGB process overprints) process hues?

The Lab numbers for CMYK(from the Kaleido coated profile purchased from TOYO-derived fromColorThink Pro) are:
Cyan 50.9L -42a -49.4b
Mag 49.8L 78.6a -17.1b
Yel 87.9L -3.4a 102.1b
Blk 9.7L 0.3a -1.9b
I do not have data for the secondary overprints.
The gamut volume for the Kaleido profile is 498,952, compared to 404,539 for the official GRACol profile.
Regards,
Todd

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

The Lab numbers for CMYK(from the Kaleido coated profile purchased from TOYO-derived fromColorThink Pro) are:
Cyan 50.9L -42a -49.4b
Mag 49.8L 78.6a -17.1b
Yel 87.9L -3.4a 102.1b
Blk 9.7L 0.3a -1.9b
I do not have data for the secondary overprints.
The gamut volume for the Kaleido profile is 498,952, compared to 404,539 for the official GRACol profile.
Regards,
Todd

The Lab numbers for the secondary overprints(RGB) are:
Red 49.11 67.51 58.1
Green 43.91 -76.42 28.32
Blue 20.21 34.32 -62.44

Regards,
Todd

 

[andr01d]

Keith -

We actually have a product that can help you here and that is installed and implemented successfully at web and sheet printers across the continent.

We see Expanded Gamut Printing as something that the industry will migrate towards over the next few years. Heck, even Sharp Electronics believes this as they are the first to commercially release "Expanded Gamut Television. Sharp believes that consumers actually want to see imagery in greater color and detail. They have embarked on both print and TV ads to deliver this message.

Our product - the ICEserver - will help you expand gamut while also saving ink and reducing waste. Please let us know if you would like any more info.

FineEye | ICEserver Expanded Gamut

It's not just about increasing density. That has been possible for decades. The trick is to balance density with the ability to maintain gray balance and tonality. We have done that.

Thanks,
Ian

Hi Keith, I'm working for a south african printshop and we've been following the development of IceServer and IceMaker with interest.

We've tried getting in touch through your website, but to no avail.

Is there perhaps another way we could trial your system?