Feedback wanted on Xerox 700

[ian]

thanks for the reply Ian, so to your best knowledge do you feel that the 700 would be good starting unit for me. As far as priced is concerned and the capabilities. I would like to run 14pt gloss through the machine and i tested in the demo room and it was fine, but of course its different when printing something all the time for a long period of time. Thanks so much for all of your input. Also I am getting the Creo instead of the fiery.

Its a great starter to get you in the door of new clients, I would recommend the bustled rip which is a lot cheaper with the optiion to upgrade the rip in 6months if things pickup and you have the extra money to spend. You can always upgrade but never downgrade.


Ian

 

[X33]

Pokey, to answer your original questions :

1. If you only have an OCT with the Xerox 700, it still has a decurling module inside the engine right after the fuser. You still have all the paper profiler tools as well.

2. The Xerox Total Satisfaction Guarantee DOES work in the U.S. I don't know about other countries, such as Slovenia where smatros is. In addition to the TSG, make sure you have a CED, if the machine does not perform as specified on the CED, it's Xerox responsibility to fix the problems, no questions asked.

GiPiNC : about the price increase on 12/11, I think it's true. Ask your rep to show you the memo about it.

 

[smatros]

As we are probably quite difficult user (we run very various jobs, from business cards to books and VDP on preprinted offset material) with several different stocks of coated and uncoated materials we probably met each and every difficulty of the machine by now. Although we love the CREO interface and functions (especially impose is great) the rip has serious bugs and problems (we moved to CREO from Fiery bustled on DC250, so we know both), some of them are causing major problems at our work. Speaking about the machine it has some issues with registration and consistency. A tech guy even removed a metal plate out of it and said this would reoslve the reg. problem (it seems it did not). There is also a known problem with fuser, which is unresolved for about 2 months now.
In general the machine suffers from serious launching problems, that will probably be resolved within a year. If you have an abundant portion of patience and will run mostly same type of jobs on same type of paper, then it will probably work ok for you. On the other hand, if X700 will be your only "working horse" and will run various products you will sooner or later run into a problem that wil stop your production for a day or two.

Xerox satisfaction program? - I believe the Xerox stuff never heard anything about it in our country. It's sad when you stress something out, and the first and most common reply is... it's paper fault, you should only use Xerox paper, when you proove them wrong they say "it's a new machine, there is nothing it can be done for now but to escalate the problem to another country office and that we have to wait for a solution for a month or two or ..." Blessed you who live in the States

In general the machine is a very advanced product and once the bugs and problems are at least mainly resolved will provide great value for money. It could be a bit faster on 13x19" paper size (330x480 mm), but still - comparing it to 250 it shows like 200% improovement.

 

[GiPiNC]

Its a great starter to get you in the door of new clients, I would recommend the bustled rip which is a lot cheaper with the optiion to upgrade the rip in 6months if things pickup and you have the extra money to spend. You can always upgrade but never downgrade.


Ian

Thanks Ian, but if I get the bustled now, i have to pay for it and the upgrade later on once I do decide. I asked my sales rep and she was hesitant to tell me, but finally she said they wont take the bustled rip back so I have to pay on both.

On another note, they gave me a 72 month lease which is long but the price monthly cheaper, what do you think of that? I myself dont like long leases because you never know. Also she told me she can make the delivery 60 days after the signature and i dont have to pay for the 60 days obviously and i can start my advertising. Also she said as long as the machine is not installed in my business i can back out the deal and xerox cant really do anything about it (hard to beleive). She said only when its installed and i decide not to go with it they will pursue.

thoughts please?

and they keep pressuring me into signing by tomorrow. Anybody else going through this.

 

[X33]

1. Don't be scared of long term leases. You can even do 84 month with Xerox in the US for even a lower payment. Would you buy a house at 15 or 30 years? If the lease is with Xerox Corporation (not a 3rd party bank or financial institution), everything is kept under the Xerox umbrella.

2. If you check the Xerox Lease Agreement, it will say that it starts when the equipment is installed. So what she is saying is true. This applies to all vendors, not just Xerox. There's no commitment until you accept delivery of the equipment. My suggestion is to sign the Agreement to lock the pricing before it increases tomorrow (that's true too).

 

[GiPiNC]

rflores, is that an honest opinion or is it because you work for xerox, I do appreciate your reply but I cant help to notice that you work for xerox and there will be some biased there. Ian do you have any suggestions? I need an honest opinion.

 

[X33]

Number 1 is my personal opinion. If you think about it, it should be better for Xerox to do short term leases like 36 months, that way they get the same amount of dollars/revenue faster and also shortens the sales cycle for an upgrade possibility. Less risk too.

Number 2 is a fact, it's documented in the Terms & Conditions of any lease agreement from Xerox or others.

 

[Craig]

I was told the same information when I made the deal on our 8000AP. The machine was not considered installed until I was happy and sign for it. My lease is 72 month as well. The hardest thing I had to do was get the tax exempt papereork corrected.

 

[smatros]

i believe if you come to them in a week and require the old offered price they would still try to close the sale and give it to you. we had a busteled rip on 250, and it is not worth sparing money on rip! You loose many time and functions by not having a pro rip. In my opinion the freeflow from xerox is the optimal choice.

I would also ask them to give you at least 60 days moratory from the day of installment to first payment. USe the same pressure... "I would sign today, but for a start I need to do advertising, buy new paper stock, ... So for the first payment investment is a bit high, let me earn money first"
Ask for some free clicks for a start as well. The machine has several known bugs, so they should come forward.

 

[GiPiNC]

i believe if you come to them in a week and require the old offered price they would still try to close the sale and give it to you. we had a busteled rip on 250, and it is not worth sparing money on rip! You loose many time and functions by not having a pro rip. In my opinion the freeflow from xerox is the optimal choice.

I would also ask them to give you at least 60 days moratory from the day of installment to first payment. USe the same pressure... "I would sign today, but for a start I need to do advertising, buy new paper stock, ... So for the first payment investment is a bit high, let me earn money first"
Ask for some free clicks for a start as well. The machine has several known bugs, so they should come forward.

Funny you said that Smatros, i did put pressure on them, i told i want the professional finisher and the high capacity for the same price and i will sign paper now. Also i told them i want 2 months for advertising. and they have agreed so far...I love u all and thanks for all of your help. They are suppose to draw up the papers for me tomorrow so we can sign. Will keep you guys posted. If any other ideas come up please let me know.

 

[Craig]

GiPiNC,
Just remember it's like buying from a used car salesman, if you don't ask for a deal you won't get one! It's unfortunate that the purchase of a digital press has stooped to the level of copier sales. Our investment is so much larger than that.

 

[GiPiNC]

k, so they are not willing to do both the finisher and the high capacity for the same price. Only one is their final offer apparently. So still deciding.

 

[smatros]

keep in mind that the x700 has several bugs and problems, one of them is the finisher. If you print a lot of stuff with full coverage then the rubber wheel marks will be visible on color. The only finisher that does not produce that effect is the High Capacity Stacker which is ridiculously expensive. The double OHCF is very good and works fine.

We are deciding tomorrow if we are keeping it or returning the machine, as several problems are not resolved by xerox and we have a print ratio of 1:2 (which means 2 good prints and 1 bad, which is not acceptable) and local xerox office is handling our complaint and problem incredibly rude. Tomorrow is also the launch of Creo service pack 1, which should resolve many issues.

I would mention several problems of other users around the world (bad alignement, marks on print as mentioned above, rip bugs, fuser problem on coated paper) and insist on having at least 25.000 free clicks for a startup.

 

[Craig]

Print the posts and show the concerns of folks like Smatros to the salesman, see if they will give you anything additional regarding free impressions. But I will reaffirm, you will have a total satisfaction guarantee to fall back on. Maybe Smatros's issues are being addressed in the US by the engineers.

 

[ian]

Print the posts and show the concerns of folks like Smatros to the salesman, see if they will give you anything additional regarding free impressions. But I will reaffirm, you will have a total satisfaction guarantee to fall back on. Maybe Smatros's issues are being addressed in the US by the engineers.

There are a lot of issues with the 700 which are currently being addressed, we got a couple of thousand free clicks for all the trouble we had to go through plus delayed payment for the lease by a couple of months.

Ian

 

[BookPrinter]

We got delivery of a Xerox 700 at end of September. and a replacement unit last month since they couldn't get the machine working up to specs. The replacement machine hasn't been any better. It has been usable for our production needs for ONLY 4 days over the past 2.5 months.

Biggest issue is with the fuser, especially noticeable on dark colors for paper size over 11x17. The "cloudiness" of the print shows up mostly on the outer edges. The Xerox team does NOT seem to have a clue of how to fix the problem, that they are finally acknowledging is a real problem ... I don't even think they have a machine or environment to test their "suggested solutions". All we get is "try a new fuser" or "try this" ... or "try that" ...

At this time, there is no end in sight

 

[leegreen]

Bookprinter, could you post a photo of the 'cloudiness' problem?

I would like to see if it is the issue I have with our current Xerox light production machine, which is the model before the 700, and we are about to get a Xerox 700 delivered in the next month... And I would hate to think it has the same problems as the one we are trading up on.

Cheers

 

[leegreen]

Actually the solution we have been given to this issue on the 700 (to be delivered) and our current Xerox is 2 fusers.

1 Fuser for stock A3 and under (297x420mm)
1 Fuser for SRA3 (320x450mm)

It might be worth asking for a second fuser unit and trying this solution BookPrinter

 

[GregNac19]

Who made this up?

 

[leegreen]

This is the suggestion from our Xerox Techs