Feedback wanted on Xerox 700

[kayabusa]

Hello GiPiNC,

I'm negotiating the 700 the last 2 weeks. Can i ask you how much they ask you for the lease and how much for the clicks.
They also give me price for the 242... and they put a lot of interest on selling me the 242 instead of the 700. (they lower the price on the 242 and increase the price on the 700)
I didn't got the payoff at the end of the lease for $1, they want the Fair market value.
In the first meeting they told me that i can upgrade the machine at any time.... in the last meeting they told me that i can upgrade only after 24 months... and property taxes included in the lease payments.

thanks.

 

[GiPiNC]

Hello GiPiNC,

I'm negotiating the 700 the last 2 weeks. Can i ask you how much they ask you for the lease and how much for the clicks.
They also give me price for the 242... and they put a lot of interest on selling me the 242 instead of the 700. (they lower the price on the 242 and increase the price on the 700)
I didn't got the payoff at the end of the lease for $1, they want the Fair market value.
In the first meeting they told me that i can upgrade the machine at any time.... in the last meeting they told me that i can upgrade only after 24 months... and property taxes included in the lease payments.

thanks.

Hi Kayabusa and everybody else who helped out with me.
I finally signed the papers, I got 700 with Creo, professional finisher, 1 high capacity tray for 60month lease at 1125.00 per month. Also i got 59 days till it installs, and my first payment will be in march of 09 which works out pretty good for me. They did tell me that i can upgrade around the 2 year mark which most people concur. Hopefully i will have the jobs to support. Of course the clicks are .049 which is pretty much standard everywhere. They really didnt push the 242 to me, may be because i stopped them right away, no point of getting the older one when everybody is getting the 700 and its far superior IMHO.

Let me know if you have any more questions, will be happy to help.

 

[kayabusa]

Is this a good deal ?

DocuColor 242
Internal EFI
Oversize High Capacity feeder
Pro finisher
84 months $ 629
color click at $ 0.049
b&w click at $ 0.0129

$ 90 more per month and they give me the 252

 

[GiPiNC]

Sounds about right, but i think you can get better. Put pressure on them and tell them you are thinking of a ricoh or canon machines, i did that a lot and it freaked them out. I personally wasnt thrilled with the 242 because it has been out for a while and i want to run 14pt and i dont think it can handle the thick stocks as well the 700. If 242 is the machine you want keep bargaining with them, i am sure they will give you a better deal. Ask them for different options, and tell them to throw something in for you....

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

Is this a good deal ?

DocuColor 242
Internal EFI
Oversize High Capacity feeder
Pro finisher
84 months $ 629
color click at $ 0.049
b&w click at $ 0.0129

$ 90 more per month and they give me the 252

is the color click for an A4 or any size?

 

[kayabusa]

they offer 0.049 for any size.....i think.

 

[BookPrinter]

Actually the solution we have been given to this issue on the 700 (to be delivered) and our current Xerox is 2 fusers.

1 Fuser for stock A3 and under (297x420mm)
1 Fuser for SRA3 (320x450mm)

It might be worth asking for a second fuser unit and trying this solution BookPrinter

We have been thru 5 fusers, including having one shipped in "special" from Asia ... and it did NOT help ... so I think someone is blowing smoke up your ass and trying to get you to buy that story.

 

[Ecowally]

X700 updated system software and Fuser

X700 updated system software and Fuser

I work for a Global Imaging Company, we have number of x700's in the field. The main issue is the Fuser. Xerox has a new half-latch Fuser to correct the modeling issues and the dull output, the fuser is available only thru Xerox Engineering. Also, New System 2.0 Software will be shipping mid to late December to fix other bugs on the IOT, waiting for the EFI & Creo to update their servers since the new IOT software changes Comm properties with as it relates to image servers. Currently ( 10) x700's in the field in Northern Ca, we also sell and support Konica Minolta. Bottomline: New Equipment will have bugs, seen it on the KM6500's,...and on the Canon Imagepress's when Global was allowed to sell them. Xerox Engineering seems to be proactive with us getting the bugs fixed.

Hope this helps...

 

[BookPrinter]

We have received one of these new "half-latch Fusers", along with new software, from Xerox Engineering ... and it did not solve the problems. I don't think the Engineers even have a machine which recreates the problems from the field, otherwise they would test out their "fixes" before sending them out to us ... and would not have sent us 3 different "fixes" ... and then wait for us to report back whether the problem is fixed.

The latest news that we've been told is that the problem seems to have been escalated above Engineering (and I thought they were at the top) to the Developers in Japan.

 

[ian]

We are having good success running 14pt on the 700 so far, the 242 does print better but hopefully Xerox can resolve the fusing and mottle issues soon.

Ian

Sounds about right, but i think you can get better. Put pressure on them and tell them you are thinking of a ricoh or canon machines, i did that a lot and it freaked them out. I personally wasnt thrilled with the 242 because it has been out for a while and i want to run 14pt and i dont think it can handle the thick stocks as well the 700. If 242 is the machine you want keep bargaining with them, i am sure they will give you a better deal. Ask them for different options, and tell them to throw something in for you....

 

[xxeroid]

From my experience, I think the DC700 is nothing more than a regurgitated DC5065, which is common with Xerox these days. I have heard reports of misregister of up to 5mm per side, and shocking Delta E results. Not a good machine to be buying at the moment

 

[GregNac19]

From my experience, I think the DC700 is nothing more than a regurgitated DC5065, which is common with Xerox these days. I have heard reports of misregister of up to 5mm per side, and shocking Delta E results. Not a good machine to be buying at the moment

From your experience? The machine has been around for a couple months. What exeperice would a sales guy have with a machine he does not sell? You have heard reports of misregistion of up to 5mm. Did bring you ruler out and check that. Please list any Delta E rating with references. I do not believe a "claim" without proof.
The 700 is 2400X2400 Dpi quality. If you want poor resolution like the competion you can buy office color from Xerox I am sure.

 

[X33]

xxeroid, you mentioned the DC5065. I'm wondering if you are you in Australia, New Zealand or somewhere in Asia.

 

[xxeroid]

From my experience?? Ok, I have sold for Xerox for the past 10 years. I have sold everything from DC1250 through to Igen. This includes DC5065, DC250, DC252, DC5000, DC6060, DC8000. I know the Einstein range of engines well, and anyone who has "any" experience within X will recognise immediately that the DC700 is nothing more than a regurgitated Einstein engine. 2,400 dpi is nothing brilliant. Yes it works well with some fine screens, but there are a lot of areas where customers have to run the machine in draft mode because the high dpi impacts on the end result. You can go on about the 2,400 dpi all you want, but at the end of the day, its the visual impact that the end user is looking for, and dpi is not the only factor that brings out good quality.
Go back to your Xerox brainwashing haha

 

[xxeroid]

Yes I do. The 5065 was an AP machine and not sure what it was badged as in the rest of the world. It also got rebadged/relaunched as the DC250, 252 etc in AP. Basically its the Einstein / Tarzan engine that X launched about 4 to 5 years ago and the engine is now seen in the DC5000 etc.

 

[X33]

xxeroid, AP = Asia Pacific?

 

[ian]

From my experience, I think the DC700 is nothing more than a regurgitated DC5065, which is common with Xerox these days. I have heard reports of misregister of up to 5mm per side, and shocking Delta E results. Not a good machine to be buying at the moment

The guaranteed specs are 1mm/side.. we had similar issues; called service and they brought it down to 0.7mm/side. Place a service call and ask for a specialist

Ian

 

[smatros]

We purchased X700 from the national Xerox dealer, have a service contract directly with Xerox.
Machine has several serious flaws and we are seriously considering returning it, especially due to arrogant Xerox behavior.
We tested prints on several stocks, some were even Xerox recommended - the problem is that in Europe Xerox is unable to supply the recommended stock in size 13x19 inch, so you have to print on smaller having almost 30% lower usage.
When printing on coated paper 13x19" (330x480 mm) almost 4 cm on the short edge side are unusable due to unresolved fuser problems. Intensive color (for example 200% Black - 100K, 100M) is peeling off the paper.
Color consistency and accuracy is almost a joke, try to print a full color (for example 100% Magenta) - it is full of stripes and dots.
Registration and alignment can be set up to be under 1 mm, but it looses settings after some printing. Resetting alignment to have it more accurate takes 2-3 hours.
The most ridiculous thing - a service specialist for Central & Eastern Europe, acclaimed to be the top 1 person for the X700 machine, who came to examine our machine, took out a metal plate part to reduce the registration mistake and claimed it is unnecessary. I'd rather not mention the Creo rip problems and bugs.

In total we lost over 12o.ooo euro (around 150.000 usd) of business due to such machine problems (comparing to our last years income and our growth in 1-10/2008) we are at a point of returning it, switching to KM and suing Xerox for the damages.

The thing that bothers me most is the terrible behavior of Xerox people, who even appointed a lawyer to handle communication with us instead of resolving problems. They are claiming the machines work ok (not true, as we have been in contact with other printers who also bought it, and have similar problems - as well as seeral people here on forum report the same).

Since Xerox was unable to resolve any of the mentioned problems, not even 1, in the last 90 days, I strongly discourage people from buying it at the moment.

I would appreciate any comments about problems and resolutions from other users. What is your opinion about such situation and what would you do? We have been more then patient for 2 months, now we are busting them for about a month but nothing good is coming from Xerox side. We can not afford any additional losses.

 

[rsands]

haha that sounds like xerox all over...they dont give a toss and dont fix probs. the 700 is having major rip problems and registration and they dont know how to fix it at minute...confirmed by engineers here. they say stay away from it for a while. you cant sue Xerox for them losses just based on year to year figures and growth...too many factors really affect that figure...not just a copier.

Xerox will sort the problems but will take their time. set them a deadline date to have a new machine or else you will contact leasing company to take it back...you did lease it right? If so it will be sorted in matter of days with them as they just take it back and then take the manufacturer for it.

 

[PineyBob]

Not sure if you are in the US or not. Xerox for years had their own financing and in the Xerox world you have options to exercise.

Sales people were charged back 3 times the value of the sale if the customer returned the equipment. Want some help tell the rep you want to do a "Sale Return", give the rep a day or two to react then elevate it to Corporate HQ and you should see action.