Gave An Employee A Raise , He Turned It Down ...WTF

[PrintingFools]

We hired an employee, when hiring we told him it was our goal and his to have his pay at $20 an hour after being with us for 1 year.
We hired him at $15, because he had no experience in a print shop before and we knew he would have a lot to learn
But, we felt he could do it.

Knowing this , after his 30 day review we would normally give him a raise of 25 cents.
The other manager felt that even with a few hic-cups , he was doing a good job and wanted to give him extra encouragement.
It was decided to give him a 50 cent raise.

Upon telling the employee, he told us he would rather not take the raise now.
That he wanted to be at $18 in 2 more months.
That he would wait for that raise and not take the raise we were offering.

I find this to be not only stupid.
But VERY RUDE.
We have a detailed plan of how raises are given.
Why would you want to make less now, then demand more on your time frame.
None of it makes sense to me.
At his next raise he would have been offered another .86 cents...that would bring him up to $16.06 after 90 days at the company.

 

[gordo]

If my math is correct - you're offering him $1.94 less per hour than he wants.

i.e.

Hired at $15
After 30 days gets $15.50
He wanted $18 at 90 days
You're offering $16.06 at 90 days.

I'm just speculating - but it seems he's subtly warning you (letting you know) that your offer doesn't meet his expectations. If he accepted what you are offering now, it would mean that he will have unconditionally accepted your salary offer and thereby lost his bargaining position.

If my speculation is correct, he has taught you a valuable lesson and should be compensated accordingly.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Upon telling the employee, he told us he would rather not take the raise now.
That he wanted to be at $18 in 2 more months.
That he would wait for that raise and not take the raise we were offering.

I find this to be not only stupid.
But VERY RUDE.
We have a detailed plan of how raises are given.
Why would you want to make less now, then demand more on your time frame.
None of it makes sense to me.
At his next raise he would have been offered another .86 cents...that would bring him up to $16.06 after 90 days at the company.

Keep to your schedule and try to avoid being pressured into changing it. If other employees found out about his success in managing you, they would probably resent it. Usually you can't win when trying to please some people.

This guy is inexperienced and if he does not appreciate this opportunity, maybe he should leave. His investment in learning a new skill is made by him working at a lower rate for some time. Your gradual approach seems to be fair and a years time should be enough to see if he can be consistently beneficial to the company and not only make an effort in the first few months. What happens if he gets the bigger raise early and then stops the effort? Working in a way that is not poor enough to get fired but also not good enough to earn that bigger pay he got. That would be a more difficult problem.

A manager told me a long time ago and I think there was a lot of truth to what he said. He said it does not matter what you pay people but you have to be sure to get the pecking order right. It was told as a joke but it was also told as a truth. People in a group will not be happy if they think someone is earning more than what their perceived position is in the group.

Good luck.

 

[gordo]

Reminds me of this June 2012 RErint 'toon:

Just sayin'

 

[PrintingFools]

That comic strip is great. I will tell you a TRUE story. We had an ad out for someone to run our Challenge Champion paper cutter. Doing cutting and additional bindery department work. The ad gave a list of experience you had to have and machines you need to know. Well, this guy calls and keeps trying to tell me he is the one for the job. How great he is and so on......then when I "press" him to finally finally answer what his experience is....he says to me....an I swear this is true..." I'm really good with scissors" ...to THIS DAY we still have a laugh about that one

 

[PrintingFools]

Erik Nikkanen, This is my feeling as well. I dont feel the employee should set the terms of how I manage my people. Is this a warning signs of future problems with this person.....or does he just not realize that what he did was a bad move. He begged to work for us...for about a year. Now he is as arrogant as "expletive"

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Erik Nikkanen, This is my feeling as well. I dont feel the employee should set the terms of how I manage my people. Is this a warning signs of future problems with this person.....or does he just not realize that what he did was a bad move. He begged to work for us...for about a year. Now he is as arrogant as "expletive"

Hopefully this guy is just young and with some time he will mature, but maybe he won't. Some people never grow up.

Most people do not realize that people are not compensated for the present work they do but for the work the did in the past. One should think in terms of putting in the extra effort today for future increases in pay, bonuses or future considerations in new opportunities.

I have never met anyone who was indispensable to an organization. I have seen some sad situations where some people thought they were and pushed their luck too far in thinking nothing would happen to them when they would not comply with the organization's needs. And these are the organization's needs (for better or worse) defined by their manager. People do not work for companies, they work for their manager.

 

[kdw75]

Erik, would you mind saying what area of the country this is? That sounds like pretty good pay. In our town, here in Missouri, an experienced 28" 4 color pressman, makes around $20/hr. Did I mention that he had been doing it for 30 years? Our cities median household income is 42K/yr.

It sounds to me like this guy doesn't understand the relationship between employee and employer. If he doesn't appreciate the job after such a short time, it is only going to get worse. It makes me think that he feels that the wages are automatic, and not performance based, either that or he really is that good, and he knows it.

 

[nemo]

you guys are too worn out by the system....

As a well prepared and hard working person I would have personally done the same and refuse an insulting raise plus seriously thinking of finding another job. It simply does not matter what your "policy" is. Don't treat people like slaves or tools.
From your post it seems like "the other manager" noticed something in that employee that you did not and he wanted to keep him.

In my life I had similar experiences - many years ago, in one place when I started there were 3 people doing the job - after 3 months, the other 2 left for various reasons and I worked my ass off and did everything and even more all by myself. After 6-7 months I was given a very small $1 raise - I wasn't looking especially for money but for appreciation which was scarce as well. After 11 months I gave up and quit (without another place to go to) and 1 month later they were employing again 3 people to do my job....
I think it was a lesson for both me and them - for me to not underestimate people greediness and for them to better appreciate hard working people.
My next job started at about 30% more but the owner knew how to appreciate people - in 3 months I was his right hand in the 50 employees company and my wage jumped about 40%. After 7 month I received a job offer in a large company at more than double compared to what I was making and a position I dreamed of - I showed him the offer and told him I would stay if he can match 80% of that as I valued the place and relationships - he could not as it was much more than anyone else was making there, but we remained friends, he gave me presents when I left and I returned several times to help him with issues without ever asking for a pay.
My advice for you is to do your best to keep the hard working and efficient people by showing your appreciation and compensating them accordingly.
Do not use a scheduled raise policy but always compare the employee performance with the others on similar positions.

 

[aqazi81]

I totally agree with nemo.

 

[rich apollo]

The guy sounds like a pretty savvy negotiator to me. In the end, you'll pay him what you feel he's worth, regardless of what others around him are making (it's none of their business, and discussing wages is a dismissable offense in many companies). If your perception of this employee's value doesn't jive with his perception of his own value (or it doesn't align with his goals) then you'll part ways.

I don't think this is something to feel negatively about. In fact, the guy sounds pretty sharp. He's giving up something now in hopes of achieving greater gain in the future. Look up the Stanford Marshmallow Test conducted by Walter Mischel.

 

[Possumgal]

This guy sounds like the typical guy who thinks only about how much money he wants, not about whether or not he's worth it to the company.

Where I am, I never heard of a raise after only 30 days. If he thinks he's suffering, try a 25 cent raise every two years or so. Maybe. If business was good enough. Bet you've got benefits, too.

 

[arossetti]

I'm weary of 1-size fits all "schedules". You look at the calendar more than at the employees true worth; either inflated or deflated.

If you had this "schedule" since he was hired and you were going to abide by it strictly why didn't you share it with him at the time of hire? You already told him that you wanted to give him $5 more in 12 months so why not share the road map to get him there? Doesn't seem like you would be showing your hand since you already had an agreed upon end point.

 

[arossetti]

This guy sounds like the typical guy who thinks only about how much money he wants, not about whether or not he's worth it to the company.

Where I am, I never heard of a raise after only 30 days. If he thinks he's suffering, try a 25 cent raise every two years or so. Maybe. If business was good enough. Bet you've got benefits, too.

Problem is he was told he would be getting a $5 increase by years end and you offer him 50 cents. If he had no expectations of an increase he would have gladly accepted $.50 I'm sure.

 

[D Ink Man]

That pay stinks, unless he is sharpening pencils.

D

 

[mwc]

So, you have a probationary employee that wants to dictate how much his pay will be...and when?
If the terms of his employment was to reach $20 after a year...then incremental(and reviewed) steps during that year show that things are moving in the proper direction, yes?
I have not had a situation where someone refused a raise, with the presumption of a bigger raise happening ahead of schedule...
anyhow, ballsy move for a (again) person in their training period...and his/her current expectations forecast a disgruntled/problem employee in the future...
I would accelerate the introduction of the door to this person.

 

[davarino]

Interesting thread. Many things not said, many prejudices not acknowledged.

From the workman's point of view, the guy is right in trying to assert his position and get the most money he can before the end of the year and position himself for even better than he was offered.

From the manager's point of view, the guy is arrogant, unfathomable in not taking his Boxing Day sovereign, and a troublemaker.

Both are accurate in their assessments.

As a manager, if you are afraid of or uncomfortable with this kind of behavior you should can him. He will never fit in with your organization.

On the other hand: If you see the potential in him (and if he's in front office work, it looks like he has potential ), negotiate. Looks to me that he's just an employee of a breed we don't come across often... bright. You need him if you can work with him - he can work with you to your benefit. But don't fool yourself.

 

[chevalier]

It would mean that he will have unconditionally accepted your salary offer and thereby lost his bargaining position.

As a well prepared and hard working person I would have personally done the same and refuse an insulting raise plus seriously thinking of finding another job. It simply does not matter what your "policy" is.

Nailed it.

Many years ago I was the employee in this scenario but I was completely overt about it. I told the employer I'd gladly take the raise but that I expected the full raise by day X and that if I did not receive it that it would be an absolutely clear signal to find employment elsewhere. I'll also state that in >15 years in this industry I have only ever received one raise that I did not have to be virtually demand. All of my demands have always been met or exceeded.

There is nothing rude about negotiating money and wages in a straight up fashion (exception: yelling, cussing, etc.). It's money and it doesn't care about how you feel or what your intentions are. This isn't about us being friends its about you capitalizing on the fruits of my labor and extracting a profit. I should share in that profit and not work for the least amount you can goad out of me.

As a now manager at a different employer...
Structured and scheduled raises are a terrible policy. Give them at discretion for performance if your going to give them at all. Structured bonuses do make sense but discretion should also apply. Valuable people know when they are valuable and the intelligent ones with a backbone will let you know it. Your best employees should not suffer because of the mediocre and lazy ones.

 

[MailGuru]

Just thought I would interject something here. Everyone has jumped to the conclusion that this employee is either arrogant, ballsy, demanding, etc., How do you know? Have you sat down and discussed with him what is going on? There may be a perfectly logical explanation. Could he be going through a divorce, or, some sort of litigation wherein he is going to be assesed a monetary payment based on his current salary (alimony, child support, restitution, etc.). If so, he may want to keep his "official" salary low until the matter is resolved - defer his raise until after the final judgement has been rendered.

Probably not, but, just a thought..........

-MailGuru

 

[chevalier]

Just thought I would interject something here. Everyone has jumped to the conclusion that this employee is either arrogant, ballsy, demanding, etc., How do you know? Have you sat down and discussed with him what is going on? There may be a perfectly logical explanation. Could he be going through a divorce, or, some sort of litigation wherein he is going to be assesed a monetary payment based on his current salary (alimony, child support, restitution, etc.). If so, he may want to keep his "official" salary low until the matter is resolved - defer his raise until after the final judgement has been rendered.

Probably not, but, just a thought..........

-MailGuru

This is why one should be overt and not covert about the reasoning and negotiation point. Tactics are useless without a clearly defined strategy...