General print question

[iggee002]

Hi ALith7,

I apologize as well...I get frustrated too. Half the time I feel like I'm in school with no teacher. Google has been the best teacher so far, lol. And my boss just doesn't understand, though they are patient for the most part. It's hard for me to not get the attitude that "this isn't what I was hired for, so why does my job depend on it now?" But I remind myself that I wanted to be a designer, and couldn't get my foot in the door due to lack of experience, and they made a position for me where I can better my career. I'm thankful once I calm down and remember that.

I will send you one of the templates I made for the line of products we are having trouble with. It's in .ai format since that's the way they want me to send files. Thanks for the help!

Cherie

 

[Alith7]

I'll watch for your email. I know just how you feel!! I tripped into this career right out of high school and even luckier, I tripped into a company where the owner appreciates my ability to learn anything he throws at me. I'm completely self taught, and am currently the "go to" person for a disturbing amount of people. Some who have been in the industry longer than I've been alive! And you're right, there is no teacher. but you're going about it the right way!

 

[iggee002]

I will have to send via Yousend it. I don't have a file less than 28 megs.

 

[Alith7]

No problem.
otherwise you can register for an account on my website and use our uploader.

Graphic Edge Printing

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

The discussion has been hot, and I don't mean to be fuelling a fire, but pantone is not as simple as all that either. Printing from the same bucket of pantone NNN will give different colour depending on substrate. (I think there was a thread called pantone 123 or something like that discussing the inconsistencies of pantone, so you will find as many skeletons in the pantone cupboard)

Also communicating across culture is not as simple as words (ie google translate) but there are different ways we communicate what is important as well as how and if we admit that we could do things differently.

You will need to find out if they print to a standard (on the substrate that you are ordering). What are the solid densities and what is the dot gain. An ICC profile would be ideal, but first you need to convey that getting consistent colour is important to you and that you will not pay for a result below a certain standard. The details of calibrating is spread around this forum... but as has been said the first step is to establish contact with the right people and for all to admit, that the result can be better and agree on what you are shooting for, this may mean that you need to change the printer OR you may need to accept that the production quality is not as important as you personally consider it to be.

If you can agree on a standard, then this simplifies since it would be easier to see if you lived up to the standard and they delivered up to it.

 

[Correct Color]

Cherie,

I am designing in CMYK, and the files are almost all vector. I'm not sure what I am doing wrong. I told my boss that my guess is the ink quality the Fty is using because the files were CMYK, and that should be universal...right? She told me that China needs Pantones...I said that Pantones would still have CMYK values to print...

Any advice or insight at all would be very, very welcome. I want to fix this issue...and also prevent it from happening in the future.

First, off, no...CMYK is not universal. There are any number of differing "CMYK" inksets.

Second, you said on your other thread that you printed to a laser printer, but here you say you print to an HP CP2500. Are you sure that's not an inkjet?

Third, Pantone colors start as spot colors but can be represented as CMYK values. However, it's very, very, very important to never attempt to substitute CMYK values for PMS colors unless you're certain of the entire colorspace path of your project. Because any set of CMYK values that represents any PMS color only does so in the color space to which those numbers relate. Change color spaces--and that means from one CMYK space to another as well as from RGB to CMYK--and those numbers no longer represent that PMS color. (As I said on your other thread, I suspect this is at the heart of your issue.)

If you're serious about getting this under control, what you need is to have your proofing printer--the HP--profiled, then you need to find out what the final colorspace is your printer is using. Then you can tell your proofer to emulate your final print space and get an accurate representation. Then if you get your monitors profiled as well, you can set up a color workflow that will be consistent, predictable and repeatable.

It's going to take all of that, however. Correct color management involves getting the color numbers in your digital file from their inception color space to the conclusion color space with their color information uncorrupted and intact. There are usually more than a few turns in the journey, and you only have to turn wrong once to not get where you're going.

As I said on your other thread, you'd be well-advised to hire an expert to come in and set it all up for you.

You'll be dollars ahead in the end. Guaranteed.


Mike Adams
Correct Color

 

[iggee002]

Hi Lukas,

I totally agree that language (and a 12 hour time difference)can be a HUGE barrier. For the most part we do well, but there are times when it takes me a week to explain how an artwork file is to be applied to the product.

The print quality is an issue that we will need to deal with. If all our packaging looked as poor as this run did, then it makes our whole company look bad. These things are going to be in major stores like Office Max and Target! We are a small company that is just now getting our foot in the door, and things like this affect the whole overall opinion of the vendor...meaning they won't buy from us again because it makes their store look cheap as well.

I, however, am at an impasse. I get flack from my boss for this reason, but they do not have the time to explain to China how important it is right now, and do not want me trying to get to the bottom of it at this time. I have other projects to work on. Fine.

However, whatever they want me to say (or not say) to China, I am still doing what I can to make certain sure the print problem is not my fault. That I am doing everything a designer can do to prevent it. I feel this will make me better at my job in the future, and it also will clear my consious when things like this happen.

 

[iggee002]

"Second, you said on your other thread that you printed to a laser printer, but here you say you print to an HP CP2500. Are you sure that's not an inkjet?"

Haha...Probably...see what I know?? Now that you mention it, I think it is an inkjet. Lasers are bigger and for higher volume printing. I tried to get my boss to buy one before because we were going through tons of ink making samples to send to buyers.

The HP is just a color office printer. Sorry about that.

 

[richielj]

My company has lots of stuff printed in China --from products like children's puzzles to packaging similar to what iggee002 does. It took a few years but we have finally reached a fairly high level of quality with the Chinese (print) vendors. We also realized that some of the vendors we were using were not doing the printing themselves, but "outsourcing" it to other vendors in China. Whatever the case Chinese printing quality has come a long way in the last few years.

Lukas was correct in pointing out the importance of communication. Ten years ago when we starting manufacturing in China hardly any of the Chinese vendors knew English, something which has changed in the ensuing years --there are now many Chinese who can communicate in English very well via email. This is a huge relief!

Additionally, we have American employees on the ground in China to oversee manufacturing, shipping, etc. The printing is handled from our headquarters in here California. Interestingly, most of our Chinese print vendors require Illustrator v9 eps files. As far as the pantone colors go, I have seen projects comprised of as many as 12 spot colors, something which dumbfounds us here in the graphics department. Also, we don't use any special icc profiles --only SWOP2006_Coated5v2.icc.

I could probably get the names of a couple of the Chinese vendors who print packaging for you if you wish (all contacts are handled by another department).

 

[iggee002]

Hi richielj,

That's a great idea. I will need to speak with my supervisor about this. Right now we have bigger fish to fry, and the damage has already been done for the moment. As soon as I have a moment to breathe I will talk to them about this topic and see how they would like to address the issue.

Thanks so much for the response!