Good or bad idea in my situation? (Only selling posters with mounts/mattes)

  • Thread starter PrintingInLincs
  • Start date
P

PrintingInLincs

Guest
I just see a 3mm border as being trouble from the start no matter how good your equipment is.
I'd also see shipping frames as a nightmare.

If it was me I'd just work on adjusting the artworks so you can print borderless and reap the long term benefits.
I do offer borderless now, but also the 3mm margin. 90% of people choose the margin. I agree it's a pain & so looking at options where the trimming doesn't need to be so precise.

My wife has a saying about me & printing ..." you need to get out of your own way"
 

pippip

Well-known member
I do offer borderless now, but also the 3mm margin. 90% of people choose the margin. I agree it's a pain & so looking at options where the trimming doesn't need to be so precise.

My wife has a saying about me & printing ..." you need to get out of your own way"

I would bet that has nothing to do with the border and more about how you phrase your option on the website.

"Yes please, I may frame this"
 

tngcas

Well-known member
I do offer borderless, but having the option of a 3mm margin or borderless then 90% of people will choose the margin. We changed our options to test that.
That's because of how you worded it.

You put "Yes please - I may frame this" - implying that they can't frame them without there being a white border. If you filled that "white border" with extra, background content that can be covered up by the frame without sacrificing the content then you'd be fine. If you changed it to "Yes please - I'd prefer a white border" and "No, thank you - I prefer my prints borderless" - you'd find 90% of people don't want a white border. You're not telling them that the 3mm optional border is white.

Our shop actually charges people more for borderless prints because people see it as an upgrade. You're making it sound like a white border is an upgrade.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
Using a trade printer wouldn't be great for someone that gets frustrated about a fraction of a mm difference on a border or something similar. (I tried outsourcing with large format prints)
To the contrary, it would be perfect, since if you were to sub out the print and fulfilment, you wouldn't get to see or measure the borders.
You would just deal with processing orders, sourcing & working on artwork and collecting positive etsy feedback, which I gather you enjoy.
 

PricelineNegotiator

Well-known member
That's because of how you worded it.

You put "Yes please - I may frame this" - implying that they can't frame them without there being a white border. If you filled that "white border" with extra, background content that can be covered up by the frame without sacrificing the content then you'd be fine. If you changed it to "Yes please - I'd prefer a white border" and "No, thank you - I prefer my prints borderless" - you'd find 90% of people don't want a white border. You're not telling them that the 3mm optional border is white.

Our shop actually charges people more for borderless prints because people see it as an upgrade. You're making it sound like a white border is an upgrade.
Or just not even offer a border option.
 

tngcas

Well-known member
Why do we let this gentleman suck us in every time to a losing conversation - he's gonna do what he's gonna do. :D
He's the epitome of the worst cliches of every terrible customer we have but masquerading as a printer. Do we just feel like if we win with this guy that this will somehow make up for all the times we lose with our customers?
-- I want a full bleed print but I don't want to provide a bleed. I also don't want anything cut off. Why can't it just print and cut perfectly every time.
-- I want a perfectly even border on every print that is only 3 pixels wide.
-- I want every shade to be exactly the way it looks on my monitor and to print the exact way it looks when I print it on my $20 desktop inkjet printer (with who knows what settings).
 
P

PrintingInLincs

Guest
To the contrary, it would be perfect, since if you were to sub out the print and fulfilment, you wouldn't get to see or measure the borders.
You would just deal with processing orders, sourcing & working on artwork and collecting positive etsy feedback, which I gather you enjoy.
I've used other printers before, but the quality ALWAYS slips & you have to buy in bulk to get prices down.

I would never let anyone send print directly to a customer on my behalf, that's just madness.

Other businesses don't care about your business in the slightest so they just send anything out.

That's not what this thread is about, however.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
P

PrintingInLincs

Guest
You would have no printing, finishing or fulfilment costs.
Just a fixed price based on volumes.
We are in the UK and can do this for you, as could many others. I've offered before and I presume others have too.

A year ago last month you said you were selling the Versant. Why have you still got it?
Yup, I'd definitely still have all the costs as well as the costs of buying from another printer. Nobody is buying equipment in the current economy so we still have it, unfortunately.
 
P

PrintingInLincs

Guest
Cheers to those that answered the actual original post, rather than trying to either sell equipment to me, visit me or get me as a print customer. Madness.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
Cheers to those that answered the actual original post, rather than trying to either sell equipment to me, visit me or get me as a print customer. Madness.
Karl, those on here who offered to visit you did so to help and get you on the right track, in the spirit of the forum.

Had you had taken up one of those offers of a day or two consultancy, you would likely be in a different place today both financially and in terms of your personal wellbeing. You've said that Versant has "virtually ruined your life" - that's strong going! Whilst we've all had machines we curse and swear at, or have spent too much time/money servicing, they're never game changers.

I'm one of those who offered print & fulfilment services to you. Again, to help you, in the spirit of the forum. Producing and fulfilling 50 posters a week would take us less than half an hour and if that got you your life back, then great. It's good to offer.

Your summary of the help you've been afforded on the forum is "madness". I guess there's little more we can do or offer.

FWIW, what's "madness" to me (I thought you were joking when you first mentioned it so had a look on Google Earth...) , is that you actually removed windows and courses of bricks to the front of your house to install a production printer at home!

Presumably when you do eventually see the light and offload the machine, you have to do the same again (or cut it up - this may be cheaper).

NLPG.JPG
 

Magnus59

Well-known member
Karl, those on here who offered to visit you did so to help and get you on the right track, in the spirit of the forum.

Had you had taken up one of those offers of a day or two consultancy, you would likely be in a different place today both financially and in terms of your personal wellbeing. You've said that Versant has "virtually ruined your life" - that's strong going! Whilst we've all had machines we curse and swear at, or have spent too much time/money servicing, they're never game changers.

I'm one of those who offered print & fulfilment services to you. Again, to help you, in the spirit of the forum. Producing and fulfilling 50 posters a week would take us less than half an hour and if that got you your life back, then great. It's good to offer.

Your summary of the help you've been afforded on the forum is "madness". I guess there's little more we can do or offer.

FWIW, what's "madness" to me (I thought you were joking when you first mentioned it so had a look on Google Earth...) , is that you actually removed windows and courses of bricks to the front of your house to install a production printer at home!

Presumably when you do eventually see the light and offload the machine, you have to do the same again (or cut it up - this may be cheaper).
I've just gone back and re-read the original thread, and I came away with the same headache I suffered the first time.
In my 44 years in the printing industry, I have never encountered anything as ridiculous as this.
I do feel that Xerox should have been a bit more diligent in the first place by ensuring that the machine was suited to the application, if they had been more responsible instead of just selling a machine to anyone who thinks it's what they need, they could have avoided a lot of heartache.
Blind Freddy can see that this business would be much better off with a good inkjet plotter such as an Epson Surecolor or a small flatbed unit and a good rotary trimmer, a 12 colour plotter is going to yield much more vibrant colours than will ever come off a toner based machine, but will need to be used at least once every few days to keep the printheads clean.
There is a reason why everyone else producing short run or one off poster prints is using inkjet.
The Versant should be pumping out thousands of sheets all day every day, that's what it's built for, that's what it wants to do and it will only perform at its best if that's what it's doing.
My advice would be to sell the Versant and buy a plotter, life would be so much easier and you will be making profits instead of pouring money into something that is not fit for purpose.
 

bcr

Well-known member
We’ve went over this time and time again about the trimming. Your equipment is very capable of creating perfect prints in 1 sheet. I even demonstrated it for you. I downloaded your file, printed a print with a 3mm border and trimmed it in about 10 minutes. Did you ever consult anyone in the printing industry about this?

i don't know why people are bothering to take their time to reply to this guy.
he doesn't listen. and then keeps coming back with the same problem.
there's plenty of people offered to help. some i think based in the UK as well.

but despite not knowing how to solve the problem he insists that all the solutions are wrong. all of you people successfully running print businesses must be doing something wrong then.
 
Last edited:

PricelineNegotiator

Well-known member
i don't know why people are bothering to take their time to reply to this guy.
he doesn't listen. and then keeps coming back with the same problem.
there's plenty of people offered to help. some i think based in the UK as well.

but despite not knowing how to solve the problem he insists that all the solutions are wrong. all of you people successfully running print businesses must be doing something wrong then.
Lincs this is unfortunately very true.
 

AP90

Well-known member
i don't know why people are bothering to take their time to reply to this guy.
he doesn't listen. and then keeps coming back with the same problem.
there's plenty of people offered to help. some i think based in the UK as well.

but despite not knowing how to solve the problem he insists that all the solutions are wrong. all of you people successfully running print businesses must be doing something wrong then.
@PrintingInLincs i hope you realize that everyone on this board is trying to help you. Most of us are senior members and have been on this forum a while and have a lot of knowledge of the printing process. We’ve also followed your post and can remember your situation pretty well. I’ll break it down.

1. You upgraded printers and the 180 didn’t have the same printing deletion areas the 550 had, so you were struggling to get a 3mm border. We all said you should be trimming to the border.

2. You got a trimmer and we’re still having problems. You posted the file and many of us printed it and showed you that it was possible in 1 sheet and in about 5 minutes.

3. You rejected all of our offers to come consult you and in the end kept doing things the way you were and couldn’t get good prints out.

4. Now you’ve come back and want to do this a different way now with frames and matte. And you’ve said your business has taken a significant downturn. You were doing 30-50/day and are now doing that a week. You need to get back to your strong points.

So it would be expensive for one of us US people to come over and help you. For me it’d probably be $2500 or so (1k airfare and I’d be willing to ride economy lol, 500 hotel, 200 transport and the rest consulting fees/miscellaneous). I’m sure a UK member would be considerably less and probably even help out for a nice dinner and a case of beer. But even if you were to pay me to help you produce sellable prints in the first or 2nd print you’d make your money back in 2 weeks if you could get back to your old numbers. 30/day @ $10 profit each means an additional $1200/week income. Just guessing in poster profit.

Just remember, we’re trying to help. Your not doing anything that someone on here hasn’t tried. None of us here are cutting edge innovators. We’re printers running the same digital equipment as you are and are selling print to customers everyday. I’ll be shipping out 1000 novels this week. Printed a card game for a customer a few weeks ago. University programs weekly. We know what we’re doing and we’re trying to help you.
 

What About Profitability?

Canon 2022
The Video You Really
Need To Watch

Modern offset press performance comes with several nuances.
Chris Travis, Director of Technology at Koenig & Bauer, shares some details.
View The Video

   
Top