GRACoL final PDFs differences

[lnivin]

Is this "normal"? We've tested PDFs refined through Prinergy in several different formats with all final destinations as GRACoL 2013. Final PDFs are different. Test #1 - Photoshop placed in InDesign (SWOP JPG, GRACoL JPEG, SWOP EPS, SWOP TIF, etc). Test #2 - Then Photoshop files placed in Illustrator, then into InDesign.

Most Final PDFS are similar but shadows are different on the Cyan channel. But, some have all SWOP remaining SWOP - don't look like GRACol at all, even though I've told it to replace all profiles with GRACoL.

Attached is a screenshot of one that kept a file as SWOP. And a screenshot of the Prinergy Process.

 

[Steelhead121]

Your screen shots are too blurry to read but I'll take a shot at this. In the field in your refine plan "Assign Input Device Conditions", try leaving the CMYK Images and CMYK Graphics unchecked. Also uncheck "Override embedded profiles" in all 4 check boxes.

If you are getting different results with the same refine plan, your Adobe applications probably have different color settings and you have Prinergy set up to manage each one differently. They should all be the same. North American Prepress 2 isn't a bad place to start for your Adobe Applications.

 

[lnivin]

We are using GRACoL workspace in all Adobe applications. I tried as you described and no difference. So I thought if I use Acrobat to convert to Color Space and also tried PitStop, and also Exporting from InDesign as Final Destination GRACoL. Then "Assign Input Device Conditions". Nothing seemed to be consistent.

If I used GRACoL and Export as Destination SWOP, when it refines all images have the "GRACoL" look (with less color in the Cyan separation) but images that had SWOP Profile in PhotoShop or Illustrator had more Cyan in the shadow areas.

This was as close as I could get to any consistency. Same image, just saved out of Photoshop in different Modes and different Color Spaces.

I was hoping they would all look identical when Refined with GRACoL.

 

[lnivin]

How do I get the screenshots (which were made at full screen size) to stay large enough to read after uploading?

 

[Steelhead121]

Try doing all of the edits to the refine plan that I listed above. In addition, under "Convert to Destination", uncheck "Prefer embedded output intents for final output profile".

 

[lnivin]

Attached are screenshots of the Input, Output, and Prinergy Process. Workflow and Exporting and Pitstop was all using GRACoL profile.



Input



Refined

 

[Steelhead121]

Can you send a screenshot of your InDesign color settings?

 

[Steelhead121]

I also need to see your color settings when you are exporting a pdf from InDesign.

 

[lnivin]

Attached is a screenshot of my InDesign color settings.

 

[Steelhead121]

That screenshot is not the InDesign color settings, it is the color portion of the pdf export options. Profile inclusion policy should be to not include destination profile. In your tool bar, go to Edit/Color settings and send a screenshot of that as well.

 

[lnivin]

Attached is the InDesign color settings. Is this what you need?

I'll change the Destination Profile. We want PDFs that show the GRACol separations and I thought this would be a good idea.

 

[lnivin]

What we're trying to end up with is consistent GRACoL separations from Final PDF (before it is Refined). Then after Refining, it looks the same. The idea is to show customers how their separations look before printing.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Steelhead121]

Part of the problem you will have is that you have no control over their color settings. If they open a pdf file and choose to honor or change embedded profiles they will have different results.

All you can really do is make sure that every file going through your system has the same end results regardless of how you bring it in.

We have been using Prinergy for about 12 years. Any time we have poor results, I go back and check the settings we are discussing and find that something was changed.

I would try making all of the edits to Prinergy and the Adobe applications that I spelled out in posts 2, 5, and 10 above. I also do not like a couple of things in your InDesign color settings. In the "Color Management Policies" area, switch RGB to "Preserve Embedded Profiles". Also switch CMYK to "Preserve Numbers". Then uncheck the 3 "ask when" boxes.

That is how we are set up. Any file I send to Prinergy will come out the same when refined.

Hope this helps.

 

[lnivin]

What do you have your Adobe workspace set to? Or does it matter?

 

[lnivin]

Screenshots of settings and results -

InDesign Color Settings


InDesign PDF Export Color Settings


Prinergy Color Convert Settings


Results - Cyan Separation


All look the same except the image with Photoshop GRACoL profile. The GRACoL image is what we are wanting so we can show customers the separations before printing. But it seems the common workflow is to keep SWOP.

So far, I don't seem to be able to keep separations consistent when converting to GRACoL.

 

[kennycu]

It looks like you're putting a SWOP link into InDesign and wanting InDesign to convert the link to GraCol? You either have to color manage the link to GraCol in PS, then link...or have InDesign do it by color managing the link under the "Object" menu...Image Color Settings. Select SWOP(or whatever linked profile of image) and your image will get color managed to GraCol on output. This, of course, produces different CMYK values than your PS SWOP image(like you want) but should match your separations as if you have converted to GraCol in PS.