Harcore VDP

[UberTech]

Is anyone doing massive VDP work, in the sense of image VDP and huge databases? Not so much the mail merge stuff, or numbering.

I’m just interested as you hear a bit about 6 digital machines running 24hours trying to get VDP jobs out and you expect this to me more than just mail merges, not so much transactional printing.

What software do you use to build the document? I don’t mean xmpie, Fusion pro I’m talking how do you build the data so xmpie or Fusion pro can do the merging. Your customer will have a huge database and say for example the client sells electrical goods. They could say, ok everyone who has bought a Sony TV in the last 3 months gets a letter giving them a discount of %10 off a PS3, those that bought a Samsung TV get %10 off a surround sound system.

You obviously need to build that query. Do you just manually filter thru the results of a excel spreadsheet or is there specific software that will let you pull data like that? I guess the question is, is there a conduit between raw data and your VDP software.

 

[pcmodem]

The software for building the Variable Data job (xmpie, fusion pro) can do the logic of determining which letter and how much of a discount they get.

If you are referring to a more general term of who to send to. Using your example above say there were 10,000 people who purchased items but only 2,500 people fell within the parameters of buying a Sony or Samsung TV within the last 3 months. This type of information is typically filtered/data mined directly from the MIS system and not at the printer. If you do need to perform this function at the printer, we use our mailing presort software to help us with our logic. We use Mail Manager, but you could use Access or Excel (with Data Filtering)

 

[Schnitzel]

I use a custom made Python script for inserting the database into MySQL, then extracting the data to TXT files, in the order and structure my VDP software needs.
This gives an extremely high level of flexibility - Python is an amazing language for these kind of tasks. Really worth learning if you intend to do massive VDP jobs.

After creating the TXT files, I import them using InData for InDesign. It cannot create a VDP file such as PPML, but it suits my needs, though, since it is very flexible compared to off-the-shelf VDP software.

 

[UberTech]

Yeah, I figured there is a bit of custom software involved. I guess every customer is so different you probably couldn't get an off the shelf package to deal with all of them. If I was to try it I would do it with a PHP script then the querys could be executed anywhere.

I guess this is the problem with VDP. You have all the work playing with databases and then the software to generate the finished document and then the printing. It would be a hard sell to convince a customer the extra cost is justified. Or even being prepared to take a hit for the job.

 

[Schnitzel]

...probably couldn't get an off the shelf package to deal with all of them.

Actually, I was interested for some time in GMC's PrintNet. Interested, that is, until I heard the price tag. Now that's a real behemoth for producing VDP jobs. It contains the simple VDP tools every software has (text styling, image placement, rules etc.), in addition to table creation, charts, a built-in programming language for manipulating data, and much more. It can do practically anything you want. The thing was, again, the price, which was absurdly way above our budget.

There is a solution out there, just not for small-to-medium businesses. That's why I invested the time to learn the scripting language. It paid off big time, eventually.

 

[pcmodem]

In these cases, do you already have the list of people (records) of who the Variable Data piece is going to?

 

[printhousepl]

indesign with data in excel can do the job

indesign with data in excel can do the job

I fill indesign can do te needful with image variable facility to work with without any other investment

Is anyone doing massive VDP work, in the sense of image VDP and huge databases? Not so much the mail merge stuff, or numbering.

I’m just interested as you hear a bit about 6 digital machines running 24hours trying to get VDP jobs out and you expect this to me more than just mail merges, not so much transactional printing.

What software do you use to build the document? I don’t mean xmpie, Fusion pro I’m talking how do you build the data so xmpie or Fusion pro can do the merging. Your customer will have a huge database and say for example the client sells electrical goods. They could say, ok everyone who has bought a Sony TV in the last 3 months gets a letter giving them a discount of %10 off a PS3, those that bought a Samsung TV get %10 off a surround sound system.

You obviously need to build that query. Do you just manually filter thru the results of a excel spreadsheet or is there specific software that will let you pull data like that? I guess the question is, is there a conduit between raw data and your VDP software.

 

[Digital Press Guy]

Uber Tech:

There are many direct mail companies running on KM engines doing massive amounts of VDP work running on software from Jetletter LLC.

Jetletter's PSL software is intensely FAST at a third the price of offerings from GMC. A new version with a much friendlier user interface will be announced by June.

Jetletter's software can be used to design both static and dynamic elements of a VDP file. It is capable of dynamic rendering on the fly a feature only found on software costing much more. It will work with all third party design suites and apps.

Full feature trial versions are available. More info can be found at:

PSL-Jet Letter- Variable Data Printing Software

 

[Digital Press Guy]

Uber Tech:

There are many direct mail companies running on KM engines doing massive amounts of VDP work running on software from Jetletter LLC.

Jetletter's PSL software is intensely FAST at a third the price of offerings from GMC. A new version with a much friendlier user interface will be announced by June.

Jetletter's software can be used to design both static and dynamic elements of a VDP file. It is capable of dynamic rendering on the fly a feature only found on software costing much more. It will work with all third party design suites and apps.

Full feature trial versions are available. More info can be found at:

PSL-Jet Letter- Variable Data Printing Software

 

[PrintPiet]

Ubertech: you can check a lot of cases at the Xerox PiXI award and on www.podi.org

 

[vdp-curious]

Not sure about your idea of massive but have run 100,000 + data and image merges to printer and PDF. Started with Fusion Pro but found a simpler and faster solution with JetLetter PSL which not only got the job done in minutes instead of hours but also could handle a lookup table in ASCII code which means I didn't have to import tons of data into Mail Manager that wasn't relevant to mailing!

Perhaps even more relevant to your example would be a casino application where the records represent customers who based on worth get different offers with different values for different dates. A table contains all the variables (dates, offers, dollar amounts for various locations), the data is the mailing address with a code for location and worth, the vdp program looks in the table for the offer variables based on location and worth code. Coupons produced are different size and shapes with varying offers, disclaimers, etc. I think the PSL run time is 20,000 records in less than 3 minutes then the file is sent to Xerox Nuvera or DC5000 for printing.

I just sat thru an afternoon demo of HP Extreme and didn't see anything that JetLetter PSL couldn't do (except for GUI interface which I heard is underdevelopment) for a lot less money....

 

[PrintPiet]

We run for the car industry trade in mailer: you can see your own car, with the correct license-plate, color and edition of your car. Then we had a dbase with all the data and settings to drive with XMPIE the correct layers to create the correct mailer for every driver. Some mailers contained more then 30 VDP elements (photo, text, colors, text-blocks, etc, etc) . Please have a look at one of the leading companies in Holland Juffermans Support | Praktijkvoorbeelden .

 

[Digital Press Guy]

Not sure about your idea of massive but have run 100,000 + data and image merges to printer and PDF. Started with Fusion Pro but found a simpler and faster solution with JetLetter PSL which not only got the job done in minutes instead of hours but also could handle a lookup table in ASCII code which means I didn't have to import tons of data into Mail Manager that wasn't relevant to mailing!

Perhaps even more relevant to your example would be a casino application where the records represent customers who based on worth get different offers with different values for different dates. A table contains all the variables (dates, offers, dollar amounts for various locations), the data is the mailing address with a code for location and worth, the vdp program looks in the table for the offer variables based on location and worth code. Coupons produced are different size and shapes with varying offers, disclaimers, etc. I think the PSL run time is 20,000 records in less than 3 minutes then the file is sent to Xerox Nuvera or DC5000 for printing.

I just sat thru an afternoon demo of HP Extreme and didn't see anything that JetLetter PSL couldn't do (except for GUI interface which I heard is underdevelopment) for a lot less money....

Jet Letter will be releasing a drag and drop version of PSL later this summer.

 

[Eru]

Can we know in wich format is your database?

If there was a field determinig wich kind of product the client bought you could assing one layout for each option,(filtering the data input for each layout).

another option is to make one layout with ALL type of promotions and letters overlayed and show one on them using boolean values (f.expamle Sony=true if field "product" is equal to "sony")
hope i have explained well =D

I can talk only of PrintNet, it's the only one i use, but i would do this way.

 

[tobias]

I dont like doing this sort of stuff in Indesign, with some shabby plugin which requires lots of manual work (prone to mistakes!) and lots of wait/coffee for large datasets. Thats why we use PPML.

With PPML and JDF we can do all sorts of tricks. For instance, we can reference to http://internalserver/generateFancyImageWithName.php?name=John with local filename 000004.JPG. The PHP generates some fancy image. The RIP fetches all the fancy images and places them with PPML. Custom text is injected on top (like serial numbers, barcodes, 'normal font' text, tracking codes, personalized text) with PPML (SVG:Text) as well. Ofcourse this requires 'some' knowledge of generating fancy images/pdf's/whatever using a scripting language. But its nice to know that JDF supports HTTP URL's, this really allows for some neat magic.

If your workflow is correct, you can do all this magic automatically, databasedriven. Result is a PPML and a JDF. Feed the JDF to your DFE, and voila, it starts eating up the PPML and all of the referenced assets. And as soon as the RIP is done, so is your VDP job. No need for drinking lots of coffee praying Indesign/Quark doesnt crash.

We create all of our products, be it 'standard' or custom, from this design pattern. No manual labour, ever, except for creating the workflow to create a specific product. Once. Using this, we print custom books, photobooks, cards, etc. Every single product that leaves our factory can be considered VDP.

 

[pcmodem]

I dont like doing this sort of stuff in Indesign, with some shabby plugin which requires lots of manual work (prone to mistakes!) and lots of wait/coffee for large datasets. Thats why we use PPML.

Do you create your PPML files by hand or with another application?

If you create the PPML files by hand. Where did you get the training/information to do this?

If you are using another application. Which application are you creating your PPML files from?

Right now we use VIPP, which is great for high volume, complex, repeating jobs. The problem I see with VIPP is the small, one time, variable within an image, or variable drop shadow type of work.

 

[tobias]

Do you create your PPML files by hand or with another application?

If you create the PPML files by hand. Where did you get the training/information to do this?

Well, its a bit of both. Basically we first write (prototype) PPML by hand (using the spec PODi released) and then write software (mainly PHP and Python) which then are able to create a larger PPML job based on what we just learned while prototyping (positioning, page order, etc). So yeah, we're building it all ourselves. But by doing that (and focussing more on the software side) we are able to create an immensely optimized workflow. Basically if you order a product on our website today, and pay it online, it will be batched in tonight, and be on the press tomorrow morning when the operator starts his shift. Without any people in between.

Depending on the digital environment you're using (which press, which RIP/DFE) your vendor should be able to supply you with information regarding developing this kind of application.

Let me know if you want to know more