Help with Imposition 6x9 Perfect Bind Job

[streetsnake]

I’m new at utilizing imposition software and digital printing. We have a xerox c70 and are trying to set up a job for perfect binding. (Our first). We are trying to set up the interior pages as “step & repeat”, 4-up on 13x19 with the thought that we cut the 13x19 and end up with 4 sets of ”interiors”. The finished book size is 6x9. We’ve tried pdf snake, imposition wizard, imposition studio, all on trial basis. Pdfsnake is the simplest for us to finagle and we’ve gotten it very close, although still very challengin. However, the interior pages have a top rule and the front/back of the rules do not line up. The print is very consistently wrong but I don’t believe we can adjust the back pages only and force them to line up. I imagine it should not be this hard. Can anyone please help me understand how to properly set this up and/or recommend a good program that is geared toward simple jobs? Perfect binding, pamphlets, and booklets are as complicated as we’ll ever get.

 

[criccidisk]

QuiteImposing has never let our shop down. Their licensing cost is super fair and it has TONS of features under the hood, including the Step and Repeat function you're looking for.

 

[streetsnake]

QuiteImposing has never let our shop down. Their licensing cost is super fair and it has TONS of features under the hood, including the Step and Repeat function you're looking for.

The others have step and repeat as well. Any idea why theirs would work where the others failed?

 

[AP90]

We use the Fiery imposition as it came with our Versant. Its pretty costly if you have to purchase it outright I believe and does not have the flexibility as the other standalone softwares.

That said, we do this type of job fairly often. I will gang up the job 4 up and then set the page size accordingly. For yours it would be 6x9. For cutting down ill make it easy on myself. I adjust the gutter between them so I only need to make 2 cuts to cut out my block. I set a .5" gutter between blocks on the 19" side so I can cut the paper in half and have 2 blocks that are 9.5" tall. Ill set the gutter on the other side so I only need to make a single cut to get my blocks out. Usually that cut is 8.75" and it will leave me with my 4 blocks ready for binding. It does give me 2 different size blocks usually but I have more than enough bleed on the face trim with both sizes. It doesn't affect binding on our digibinder or trimming on our guillotine. Im sure this probably seems confusing but its how we do it and it works out great for us. It might not be the best way or the "right" way but it consistently gets the job done.

 

[criccidisk]

The others have step and repeat as well. Any idea why theirs would work where the others failed?

Are the page sizes, trim boxes, and/or bleed margins all consistent on each of your pages? Sometimes if there is an irregular page size or funky data thrown into the middle of a PDF, that can throw off how the pages are grouped on your press sheet. QuiteImposing lets you quickly redefine bleed and trim margins on pages to help mitigate that problem.

Not saying it'll be a miracle solution, but it's worked for us on probably close to 1000 perfect bound book projects that gravitate around your specified finished size. They have a trial similar to your other options as well--just reach out to them for a full demo license!

 

[prepressdork]

If a Windows-based solution is acceptable to you, you might give Montax Imposer a try. You can get hot folder-based imposition for a little over half the price of Quite Imposing.

Best regards,
pd

 

[Stickman42]

However, the interior pages have a top rule and the front/back of the rules do not line up. The print is very consistently wrong but I don’t believe we can adjust the back pages only and force them to line up.

It may be obvious, but you've got to start with a file that has uniform page sizes and placement of the copy, plus a printer that's working properly (consider that front-to-back registration spec could be a couple of millimeters on each side). If you've got both, any imposition software should be able to do a simple step and repeat. I'll throw in another vote for Quite while I'm here

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

We use the Fiery imposition as it came with our Versant. Its pretty costly if you have to purchase it outright I believe and does not have the flexibility as the other standalone softwares.

That said, we do this type of job fairly often. I will gang up the job 4 up and then set the page size accordingly. For yours it would be 6x9. For cutting down ill make it easy on myself. I adjust the gutter between them so I only need to make 2 cuts to cut out my block. I set a .5" gutter between blocks on the 19" side so I can cut the paper in half and have 2 blocks that are 9.5" tall. Ill set the gutter on the other side so I only need to make a single cut to get my blocks out. Usually that cut is 8.75" and it will leave me with my 4 blocks ready for binding. It does give me 2 different size blocks usually but I have more than enough bleed on the face trim with both sizes. It doesn't affect binding on our digibinder or trimming on our guillotine. Im sure this probably seems confusing but its how we do it and it works out great for us. It might not be the best way or the "right" way but it consistently gets the job done.

You can achieve a 4-up imposition by imposing the job onto a custom-sized sheet (creep etc included), outputting that as a PDF in Impose, then taking that PDF and running it 2 or 4-up with a standard impose template.

 

[streetsnake]

Thanks everyone. I think we got it dialed in for this run at least. I ended up adjusting the “image shift” in the Fiery command station. Once we get the job finished up I’ll try some of the additional suggestions everyone made. I did have one other question. We found we can only cut 2 books (gGuillotine) at a time without it, ever-so-slightly, moving.

 

[Magnus59]

Thanks everyone. I think we got it dialed in for this run at least. I ended up adjusting the “image shift” in the Fiery command station. Once we get the job finished up I’ll try some of the additional suggestions everyone made. I did have one other question. We found we can only cut 2 books (gGuillotine) at a time without it, ever-so-slightly, moving.

Sounds like insufficient clamp pressure

 

[surferjeff]

Thanks everyone. I think we got it dialed in for this run at least. I ended up adjusting the “image shift” in the Fiery command station. Once we get the job finished up I’ll try some of the additional suggestions everyone made. I did have one other question. We found we can only cut 2 books (gGuillotine) at a time without it, ever-so-slightly, moving.

Can you share the final imposition layout? I'd like to improve PDF Snake so similar layouts are easy for future users.

 

[halmac]

I’m new at utilizing imposition software and digital printing. We have a xerox c70 and are trying to set up a job for perfect binding. (Our first). We are trying to set up the interior pages as “step & repeat”, 4-up on 13x19 with the thought that we cut the 13x19 and end up with 4 sets of ”interiors”. The finished book size is 6x9. We’ve tried pdf snake, imposition wizard, imposition studio, all on trial basis. Pdfsnake is the simplest for us to finagle and we’ve gotten it very close, although still very challengin. However, the interior pages have a top rule and the front/back of the rules do not line up. The print is very consistently wrong but I don’t believe we can adjust the back pages only and force them to line up. I imagine it should not be this hard. Can anyone please help me understand how to properly set this up and/or recommend a good program that is geared toward simple jobs? Perfect binding, pamphlets, and booklets are as complicated as we’ll ever get.

I have been using PDF Snake for years. We print almost all our books 4-up for perfect binding.
1. Make sure you choose center on page.
2. Don't put anything in margins ie 0
enter 2 across 2 down
repeat page 4x
enter.
You can also record your steps and you can do it with one click next time.

 

[narseman]

I’m new at utilizing imposition software and digital printing. We have a xerox c70 and are trying to set up a job for perfect binding. (Our first). We are trying to set up the interior pages as “step & repeat”, 4-up on 13x19 with the thought that we cut the 13x19 and end up with 4 sets of ”interiors”. The finished book size is 6x9. We’ve tried pdf snake, imposition wizard, imposition studio, all on trial basis. Pdfsnake is the simplest for us to finagle and we’ve gotten it very close, although still very challengin. However, the interior pages have a top rule and the front/back of the rules do not line up. The print is very consistently wrong but I don’t believe we can adjust the back pages only and force them to line up. I imagine it should not be this hard. Can anyone please help me understand how to properly set this up and/or recommend a good program that is geared toward simple jobs? Perfect binding, pamphlets, and booklets are as complicated as we’ll ever get.

QUITE Imposing. Many tools, fairly simple to implement. Just think through your steps logically. Works with most versions of Acrobat Pro.
Step and Repeat. Instant Booklet signature. Creep Adjust. etc.. Save Processes of common jobs.

 

[narseman]

The others have step and repeat as well. Any idea why theirs would work where the others failed?

Check that each page is the same size. Possibly different by a fraction? With Quite Imp. You would have to "Trim & Shift" and make all pages the same size first. But.. you can also shift odds and evens, single or range of page, independently.

 

[narseman]

Thanks everyone. I think we got it dialed in for this run at least. I ended up adjusting the “image shift” in the Fiery command station. Once we get the job finished up I’ll try some of the additional suggestions everyone made. I did have one other question. We found we can only cut 2 books (gGuillotine) at a time without it, ever-so-slightly, moving.

Increase clamp pressure. Or sharpen the blade. Or Both. A dull blade will "drag" sheets.

 

[wonderings]

I like Imposition Studio Pro. It is a stand alone app, not a plugin to Acrobat or anything else that might not work with new updates. It is visual as well, simple to use and a one time cost that gives you free updates for 2 years.

 

[Make_It_So]

QuiteImposing has never let our shop down. Their licensing cost is super fair and it has TONS of features under the hood, including the Step and Repeat function you're looking for.

I will 100% second this! QI is amazing and incredibly easy to use. It makes imposing all kinds of stuff super easy. The trim and shift function would help with his front/back alignment issues in a few seconds.