i1profiler to create G7 Epson ICC profile

Alith7

Well-known member
I've been chasing this problem in circles and I'm getting no where. I'm hoping someone on here has the experience to help me out.

I had to replace my old Epson for printing color match proofs for the pressmen with a new Epson SureColor P7000. This also required a major change in my color management as my RIP would no longer direct drive the Epson. The new system is a Harlequin ColorPro core using SetGold. Add to that my ancient i1pro with my profiling license died in the middle of this so I had to upgrade to i1profiler.

I have tried everything I can think of, and I must just be missing a step in here, but I can NOT get a G7 passing proof. I think I'm missing something in i1profiler because it's making proofs that are either WAY out of press gamut (yes, it's great that you have 12 colors now Epson, but my press doesn't) or really faded, so I don't while it's making an ICC profile, I don't think it's making it for G7 color standards.

Does anyone have some info, instructions, or at least can point in the right direction to use i1profiler to help me get this thing calibrated? I am using Fuji's ColorPath Sync for profile checking. Bonus points if you have experience with using all this together with Harelquin ColorPro and SetGold.

and I also have a nice shiny new i1iSis 2 for scanning. So at least there's that.

And @gordo I know you are the color management super hero if you have any suggestions.

Thanks guys!
 

Puch

Well-known member
How do you try to achive color consistency? Please describe every step of the process!
 

Alith7

Well-known member
@Puch I'll try to get that put together, there are a lot of steps. I think where my biggest problem is what workflow and process steps to use in i1profiler.

@SteveSuffRIT no, I've been using the same proofing media for over 10 years. I prefer the Sihl Maranello Satin. I never liked the Epson photo papers as they are too white.
 

Puch

Well-known member
@Puch I'll try to get that put together, there are a lot of steps. I think where my biggest problem is what workflow and process steps to use in i1profiler.
In iProfiler you should use the CMYK printer profiling preset, with a large (over 1500) patch set. That will produce a Device Profile which can be used in ColorPro as an Output (Printer) Profile.
 

Alith7

Well-known member
@Puch That is what I ended up doing. Another person on the forum sent me a step-by-step instruction PDF for creating the ICC profile. Which actually was what I had been doing for that step, but there were a few minor setting differences.

I ended up starting from linear with no color management and only using i1Profiler, skipping the SetGold steps completely, and letting i1Profiler handle all the color maxes and such. That ICC profile passed G7 on first pass with all deltaE under 2.

It appears that using SetGold to set the different max's and curves before creating the ICC profile (even though that's how they told me I had to do it when they installed Navigator) was just adding too many variables and steps. Just letting i1Profiler do what decades of development has perfected was the easiest route. After spending more hours than I want to admit fighting this in circles, once I finally had decent instructions, it took less than 30 mins to go from linear to G7 certified. This is definitely one of my more embarrassing facepalm moments. Ah well.

Thank you everyone for the help!
 

aaronchan

Member
I've been chasing this problem in circles and I'm getting no where. I'm hoping someone on here has the experience to help me out.

I had to replace my old Epson for printing color match proofs for the pressmen with a new Epson SureColor P7000. This also required a major change in my color management as my RIP would no longer direct drive the Epson. The new system is a Harlequin ColorPro core using SetGold. Add to that my ancient i1pro with my profiling license died in the middle of this so I had to upgrade to i1profiler.

I have tried everything I can think of, and I must just be missing a step in here, but I can NOT get a G7 passing proof. I think I'm missing something in i1profiler because it's making proofs that are either WAY out of press gamut (yes, it's great that you have 12 colors now Epson, but my press doesn't) or really faded, so I don't while it's making an ICC profile, I don't think it's making it for G7 color standards.

Does anyone have some info, instructions, or at least can point in the right direction to use i1profiler to help me get this thing calibrated? I am using Fuji's ColorPath Sync for profile checking. Bonus points if you have experience with using all this together with Harelquin ColorPro and SetGold.

and I also have a nice shiny new i1iSis 2 for scanning. So at least there's that.

And @gordo I know you are the color management super hero if you have any suggestions.

Thanks guys!
I'm no expert in any of your RIP. But I would like to ask a few things before I dig into it.
For the RIP, do you do your linearization and ink limit before you step into the profiling procedure?
If you do, how do you process your linearization steps?
For inkjet + RIP, usually there are 2 methods to do it.
One is you use Curve 4 to create a G7 curve and plug it in (or sometimes merge with your in RIP Lin curve). The other way is there is a G7 compliance modular which can perform the G7 correction curve within the RIP.
So, after you finished with the G7 linearization and ink limiting, you print out a P2P51 and you should be able to achive at least G7 grayscale compliance. Both of your K and CMY NDPC should match the aim. Then you make your CMYK ICC profile. I usually use the TC1617 as my profiling target since it is also the target for G7 Colorspace compliance.

aaron
 

Quicko58

New member
@Alith7 you wrote that you are using Fujifilm Colorpath Sync for profile checking. From this I am assuming that you are already using the service. May I ask why you are not utilising ColorPath Sync to create the profile in the first instance. This would keep it as a closed loop, so to speak, and I would expect it to provide a better outcome
 
Last edited:

Alith7

Well-known member
@Alith7 you wrote that you are using Fujifilm Colorpath Sync for profile checking. From this I am assuming that you are already using the service. May I ask why you are not utilising ColorPath Sync to create the profile in the first instance. This would keep it as a closed loop, so to speak, and I would expect it to provide a better outcome
I have the full license for profiling my presses, however, I only have the proofer verify license, not the full profile builder. It had never been a problem up until now.
Bypassing the SetGold completely and letting i1Profiler manage linearization, ink limiting and curves within the ICC profile worked beautifully. I was able to have a G7 compliant proof using the TC1617 chart within about 30 minutes. I ran the first calibration chart with no color management at all, read that into i1Profiler with the i1isis 2, took the generated ICC profile, and installed that in Navigator and printed the TC1617 test chart. See screen shots.
It's not perfect, but the little bit that the grey balance a* and b* are off wasn't worth pulling an adjustment.
The biggest thing was to bypass SetGold and let the i1Profiler software do it's thing. Apparently, trying to use SetGold in the middle was conflicting with the adjustments Profiler was trying to make and just making a general mess of things.
 

Attachments

Alith7

Well-known member
The only other slightly off part of the profile is the density of the Magenta. For some reason it's reading the density at 1.80, but the L*a*b* of it is almost perfect. I chose to ignore the density in favor of the passing L*a*b* since density is really more of a reference point.
 

Alith7

Well-known member
Not as detailed as I get for profiling the press, but are you looking for an actual print comparison like the old ship images, or what the test chart patches are reading as?
In the first screenshot the bottom bar of the left hand graph is the deltaE for the CMY average.
 

Quicko58

New member
I have the full license for profiling my presses, however, I only have the proofer verify license, not the full profile builder. It had never been a problem up until now.
@Alith7 Sorry for my slow response. Sounds like you have it all sorted now anyway but I didn't realize that it was possible to have a proof validation licence in ColorPath Sync without the full profile builder module.
The dE results that you show there are not too bad at all. I agree that the dE is more relevant than the density reading. Seems a bit strange that it should be so high though.
 
Last edited:

Alith7

Well-known member
@Quicko58 My license is a carryover from a really old ColorPath Verified license, so that's probably where the weirdness comes from.
I agree on the Magenta density being so weird, but the press matched the proof exactly. Even to the browns and such, so I'm just going to go with it for now.
 

Automatically Autonomous Automation

Automatically Autonomous Automation
Although the autonomous car is not quite ready, a lights out print operation is something you can do right now if you have a comprehensive Print MIS (Management Information System). The advantages can put money on your bottom line. So what’s your next step? Link to Article

   
Top