Industry Bleed Standard

[PricelineNegotiator]

Gentlemen,


The Printing Industry ........ IS GLOBAL - and does not use American Standards

Regards, Alois

Alois and Gentlemen,


The Conversation at Hand is regarding a Standard ......... so that one may ask CUSTOMERS to save files to a STANDARD. Whether the EU or USA agree upon the units or exact number, a WORKING Agreement of .1 - .125" or 2.54 - 3.175 mm for documents that bleed has been ESTABLISHED between the FORUM members.

Ergo, reducing further discussion of said topic to the rejection of the opinions of this forum's respected members ...... which is welcome if those "rejectors" explain their own point of view !

Political comments are NOT needed !

We are attempting a pragmatic discussion !

Regards, Priceline

 

[Shawnd]

I ask for .25 but usually have to settle with .125.

 

[Joe]

And then there are times where they add the bleed to the PDF as requested but without extending the content out into the bleed. If I had a nickel...

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

I personally prefer when they export the PDF with the crop marks and color bars going into the bleed.

 

[Schnicklefritz]

Crop marks are great in the pdf if the client doesn't provide a file that's exactly a quarter inch larger wide and tall, providing an honest 1/8 inch bleed. I often need to manipulate a pdf in InDesign, so I start by importing the original version with crops for placement. Later I replace it with a version with crops removed in Acrobat.

 

[michaelejahn]

If I wanted smart-ass remarks I would make them myself like I do in every other thread! But this thread is serious answers only!

It would seems that the forum, a good representative of the industry, agrees in whole that .125" bleeds are the standard/default for the industry. Does anyone disagree with that statement?

no. there is no such "standard". Nothing that would be CGATS, ANSI or ISO - It is silly to say there is or should be. There might be many 'specifications' that are put out by manufacturers that request some manner of tolerance that they need for cutting to trim, but that is merely a 'specification" - more a 'request that you help me make things the way you expected' - I certain that everyone realizes that heat and moisture can change the dimensions of substrate and sometimes that is asymmetrically. and the printing process amtters too (Digital, offset, rotogravure - oh, and flexo would be different as well.

Depends on what we are printing, what we are printing on, what method of printing - and what I am using to cut with.

A Duplo slitter cutter expects that you place a registration mark on the sheet to compensate for image drift - image drift as defined as the printed image is often not place exactly is the same exact location - so, the Duplo will "move" the blades slightly to compensate. I know of a few folks who make full bleed Business cards where they are imposed 3.5x2 and slit - so, while the PDF file may have bleed, they are imposed without and "space" or "gutter" between the cards and slit to the final 3.5x2 size.

It is a manufacturing specification request, and there is no such "standard". Might be some popular 'amount' or what we might consider a "defacto standard" but that just people flapping their gums.

 

[michaelejahn]

I personally prefer when they export the PDF with the crop marks and color bars going into the bleed.

I would we tell you to stop that bullshit immediately, as you are wasting pixels !

LOL -

No, but seriously. why do i need color bars in the PDF you send for me to print for you?

I am probably not going to print business cards on a 3.65 x 2.125 sheet with your silly colorbars.

- most likely, i will impose that 24 up on a 12x18 sheet and create my own color bars.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

I would we tell you to stop that bullshit immediately, as you are wasting pixels !

LOL -

No, but seriously. why do i need color bars in the PDF you send for me to print for you?

I am probably not going to print business cards on a 3.65 x 2.125 sheet with your silly colorbars.

- most likely, i will impose that 24 up on a 12x18 sheet and create my own color bars.

Thank you for your replies. I agree with you 100% for the last two posts. I have a close personal friend who does his printing through me but has a buddy of his do his graphic design. I get along great with both of them but the graphic designer insists that we are just short of incompetent due to the fact that we insist on our customers supplying files with .125" bleeds. He also states that I am the ONLY printer he deals with that requests .125" bleeds. So in essence, this is really just evidence to wag in his face the next time I see him at the bar. I was also curious myself to see what other printers use as their bleed requirement.

 

[michaelejahn]

okay, so, what amount of bleed does he think is 'normal' ?

- 0.0625 on each side ?

.25 on each side ?

No bleed ? Seriously - If I am doing a poster - or art print - that will be canvas wrapped I might request 4 inches bleed on each side. There is no "standard".

Years back, when Time Inc began considering accepting digital ads ( this was even BEFORE PDF ) the published specification. When I worked as the product Marketing manager at AGFA for Apogee version 1, we had to provide imposition tools ( via an OEM version of Preps ) so, we needed bleed and trim defined. But when time published the specification that their advertisers submitting ads needed to follow, they asked RRD ( now printed by Meridith ) for help.

Today, that is all published on line ( ask your designer friend if her ever had to prepare an add for Sports Illustrated ) - LOL - yeah, I will not hold my breath...

http://www.direct2time.com/title/sports illustrated/#mechanicals

so, looking at a full bleed add, submitted to Time Inc. for a full page add - that is 8.125 x 10.75 bleed - 7.875 x 10.5 trim - so, .125 bleed on each side

So ef this designer guy.

I was part of the team from AGFA and DDAP (Gary Cosimini was there from Adobe, Alan Darling represented DDAP ) that presented this to the Ad Agencies and Printers on behalf of Time Inc at their headquarters ( back then it was Time Warner ) this was when they first announced they were no longer accepting film, would accept TIFF/IT-P1 files for a short time, but would ONLY accept PDF/X-1a file by June 1st 2001

And yeah, the 'specification" for ALL times titles was .125 bleed on all sides.

So, okay tell your close personal friend to shut his pie hole.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Of course there are different bleed specifications for different products. Typical small format prints like business cards, flyers, and 11 x 17" posters, all being produced on something like a digital press will typically call for .125" bleeds. Yes, we do request .25" or .5" bleeds for wide format products, but I guess those are more or less exceptions to the rule, being that the other items are the most prominent items that a printer (or at least the majority of printers on this forum) produce. Therefore you could infer that .125" is more or less the standard for bleed requirements, with the other items needing clarification when needed. Yes, we do run many jobs with .0625" bleeds, like 4 x 9" rack cards (4.125 x 9.125"), 6 up on a 13 x 19" sheet. But I can bring the file from .125" bleeds to .0625" on my end for a specific project. That's something my client shouldn't know about - it will just confuse them.

Yes, he thinks that .0625" bleeds on all sides is normal and that I am some dumb hick printer that doesn't know how to run my machinery with better tolerance. For all we know that is totally true, but at least we can all agree that his call on me requiring .125" bleeds is far from being an absurd request.

 

[Joe]

I've had designers ask what bleed is. When you explain it to them the first thing our of their mouth is "If you would trim it correctly you wouldn't need bleed"!

 

[pushpixels]

Of course there are different bleed specifications for different products. Typical small format prints like business cards, flyers, and 11 x 17" posters, all being produced on something like a digital press will typically call for .125" bleeds. Yes, we do request .25" or .5" bleeds for wide format products, but I guess those are more or less exceptions to the rule, being that the other items are the most prominent items that a printer (or at least the majority of printers on this forum) produce. Therefore you could infer that .125" is more or less the standard for bleed requirements, with the other items needing clarification when needed. Yes, we do run many jobs with .0625" bleeds, like 4 x 9" rack cards (4.125 x 9.125"), 6 up on a 13 x 19" sheet. But I can bring the file from .125" bleeds to .0625" on my end for a specific project. That's something my client shouldn't know about - it will just confuse them.

Yes, he thinks that .0625" bleeds on all sides is normal and that I am some dumb hick printer that doesn't know how to run my machinery with better tolerance. For all we know that is totally true, but at least we can all agree that his call on me requiring .125" bleeds is far from being an absurd request.

0.0625" on all sides is what im used to in narrow web and wide web flexo. on the digital press and laser finishing i believe we were down to 0.5mm (go figure) but our request for bleed remained at 0.0625" on all sides.

im wondering if everyone saying 0.125" means on all sides or total. i was reading it as 0.125" total and was in agreement until the last few posts on page 2.

 

[Joe]

.125" on all sides. Sometimes .25" on all sides.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

I though that when anyone in the industry refers to bleed, it is always the "x per side" for the amount. All of my posts have been .125" of bleed per side, or more depending on the machine being used. I can understand using .5mm or .0625" bleeds for narrow web and wide web flexo, but digital presses and small format offset I would immediately think that any operator would want .125" for bleed.

 

[minch]

Here in the metric United Kingdom we ask for 3mm per side bleed for most jobs, however the bigger commercial printers have an automated finishing system that requires only 1 mm bleed per side.