Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

[inky]

Hi,

Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

I've been offered a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) fitted with Varn Kompac units, at a price I can afford. I currently use and plan to keep my Printmaster QM46, but I get fed up and sometimes struggle, printing wet on wet on a common blanket and I now think some form of register would be useful too.

Any comments would be very welcome.

Thanks

Harvey

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

You are right to look for a different press to do process work. Common blanket press designs are inherently not suitable for overprinting of ink due to the ambiguity of how the overprinted ink layers will split.

Good luck with your final choice.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

Harvey,

The 3302 will run process all day. If it is in decent shape and the register is right! Is it a low serial number?
How many belts are on the feeder? Are the push guides extened?

When a 3302M or 3302H or a 3304H are right they will out print a DI hands down!

Best of Luck

 

[dremaley]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

On smaller format presses (A.B.Dick, Ryobi, Hamada) you should separate with higher amounts of GCR. This means that the color separation has less yello/magenta/cyan and more black. This makes it easier to print and registration is less of an issue.
I'll attach a pdf of printing to gray balance. . . .
Dan Remaley
412.259.1814

 

[ErnieLail]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

We have one we run process on a 3302 all the time. I would say that it would depend on the quality of the machine and the experience of the press operator. Our machine is in great shape and we had the press super run it and put out some beautiful work. Had more inexperienced operators run it and end up rerunning the job on a bigger press due to color inconsistency. It doesnt work well if there is a lot of ink coverage though, i assume thats due to the small ink rollers.

 

[banjoman]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

I would get a press with a pull guide, we just sold a Hamada C248 that was made in the mid 90's and it was great for process. I ran a 3302 for about 5 years in Ohio, in fact we had the first 3302 installed in the state and it was OK but not as good as the Hamada. It registered pretty good and you could do most stuff without much trouble but with the portrait design it would ghost more often and we replaced the gripper pads a few times and they were pricey. Ran the Hamada for 12 years and never had any problems plus switching the pull guide took about half a minute and registration was perfect.

banjoman in NC

 

[rcreveli]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

The 3302 is an awesome Press. We have run process, envelopes, Letterhead Etc. We are a small shop commercial shop and the 3302 is one of our most profitable pieces of equipment. We use it in a conjunction with a DPM 2340 for Poly plates and the occasional film for Metal. FYI We do not have continuous dampening on ours and it is still a great press.

Ray

 

[doubting_thomas]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

I'll second what Ray says. With a good operator and a well maintained
press there's no reason you can't run 4 color process all day. Your
coverage isn't as good as a true press, but it certainly will work.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

Dan, I am sure what you say helps but I was commenting in particular about common blanket presses and not just any small press. There are not many presses of this kind of design around and for very good reason. They have little control printing overprinting ink films and therefore can not do quality process printing. There is little that can be done to correct this because it is an inherent characteristic of that press design.

It just happens that now I work for a plastic container manufacturer and we print many millions of containers a day. These are printed with UV inks and on offset presses with common blanket cylinders. Because of this, it is not possible to print 4 colour (CMYK) process but process printing is imitated by means of spot colours carefully selected and with clever graphic separations. We print using PMS inks so we potentially print with over 1000 inks. We have several hundred different PMS inks on the shelves. All individually formulated.

The common blanket press is a different beast compared to a normal offset press or even a common impression press.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

Ernie,

When you say "It doesnt work well if there is a lot of ink coverage though," what is exactly the problem on these presses when printing higher coverage. This comment was stated again by d_thomas, so I am assuming that it is a common problem.

Is it a matter of print quality or is it that it is difficult to feed enough ink consistently?

Thanks for any clarification.

 

[inky]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

Offset Guy,

I went to see the machine but the people selling it could not show it working properly as like me he had never used one. It has four belts on the feeder (I don't know if the side lay is extended) and I was wondering is 22 million impressions some thing to worry about? They want £3000, 6 thousand dollars. I've now been offered one with crestlines.

Thanks

Harvey.

 

[inky]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

Thanks for all the comments as this is quite a big descision for me.

Much appreciated,

Harvey

 

[BertThePrinter]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

I am smiling as I reminisce back to when we were in the market for a 3302. We all wanted to know "will it run process color?" We saw many a demo at the old Gutenberg shows, where the 3302 ran process color. The bottom line is, YES the 3302 WILL run process color, but why would you want to. Let's take a typical job; 2500 8.5 x 11 4/4 on 100# gloss. To run it 2 up work and turn, with bleeds and color bars is near impossible. If all the stars are aligned and your pressman has his good mojo going, he may be able to do it work and turn, but most likely you are looking at 1 up and 4 passes. Your paper costs, with around 50-100% spoilage is going to run at least $100.00. You have 8 plates to make, 8 plates to hang, 4 passes through the press, 2 (or 4) clean ups and at least a half days wages. (if you are lucky) The job better not be complete coverage, or forget about it. For around $215.00 you can get 2500 4/4 With AQ, full bleeds, full coverage from a trade printer. No fuss, no muss, no irate pressman, a vastly superior product, and a much happier customer. We have a 3302 and a 2340 platemaker, and have learned the hard way NOT to try and do what the machine was NOT designed to do. It runs all day running 2 color work that makes a lot of money. Do not try and run something that WILL NOT make you money, upset the pressman, and not meet the needs of the customer. E-mail the process color jobs to a good Tradehouse. The job will be back in a few days, and you can mark it up 100-150% just for taking an order. Just because you CAN dig a swimming pool with a small shovel, does not mean it is a good idea. This is my 2 cents worth

 

[ErnieLail]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

I was told that the smaller ink rollers on the 3302 wont allow it to carry as much coverage as a 40" or 36" press. So the ink rollers arent big enough to carry enough ink for a full coverage sheet. I have also been told the closest you can get to the same quality as a larger press is a GTO, due to it having larger ink rollers. But then you arent able to run envelopes with a GTO. BTW im not a pressman, im in prepress so please forgive me for my ignorance on the subject.

Edited by: Ernie on Apr 16, 2008 2:29 PM

 

[doubting_thomas]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

As far as I know, the amount of ink coverage an operator can lay
down on a press sheet is dictated by the combined total of the
ink form rollers circumferences. Off the top of my head, the 3302
has a total of 8" to 9" total circ. from it's ink forms. What this means
is that if you're trying to carry a 15" solid on an 18" long press sheet,
the ink rollers will suffer from starvation starting 8" down the sheet.
The printed result will start showing faded bands at this point on
down the sheet. Ghosting can be a problem, too, and is caused by
the same problem (starvation on the long band of solid, while areas
broken up by photos, knockouts & graphics remain true). Lighter
coverage due to screens will help lengthen the imagable area since
starvation will occur later. Various water systems can help, too, so you'd
want to do some research regarding their differences.

I'm not a press operator either, but I have a general understanding
of the limitations of duplicators.

I hope this helps

 

[offsetguy]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

Harvey,

The 3302 has 3 belt config's.. 7 belts OLD 5 belts newer 4 belts newest, unless they cut some off.
Get the serial Number if it has like 200* it is old. Let me know if I may help I am an expert on that press.

Crestlines are great for the machine the 5 roll Altra series with a ghosting roller will print as good as a DI or other toner machine in that class.

You must decide what you intend to do with the press, But it will do process work all day. Color bars can be used. 171/4 print size.

Any way Best of Luck

OG

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

I am not a press operator either. I am a mechanical engineer and have done a lot of analysis of press designs. It is always interesting to hear what problems people actually have experienced and how it relates to the design of the roller train, etc. With roller trains, the devil is in the details.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[ASM]

Re: Is a Ryobi 3302 (Itek 3985) capable of the odd bit of Process work?

Bert the printer - one of the wisest and most helpful posts I've seen anywhere. Printers have got to learn NOT to try and undertake work inhouse that they are not equipped to produce efficiently and outsource it to those who can. I recently needed 5,000 A5 4/0 flyers and got them from a trade printer for around $380. Design company had quoted around $2,000! for print alone! There's the difference and the margin you can work with.

By the way, 3302 is a great machine. I just sold one, 1994 with 68 million impressions at around $3,000, so the price Harvey has been quoted seems fair. But use it for 2-colours 12-16 hours a day and make more money!

I have a buddy with a Ryoibi 522 and he runs process sometimes. Never more than 115lpi and it looks poor compared to a 150lpi or stochastic job printed by a trade printer on an SM74 using CTP metal plates. The reward for saying 'we did this in-house' is, less profit, less happy customer, stressed out pressman, wasted time and a damaged reputation when someone asks 'who printed this for you?'