Is XCMYK a real thing yet?

[Marie Meyer]

Would anyone be able to name any commercial printers that are doing sheet-fed jobs using "XCMYK"?

 

[gordo]

Would anyone be able to name any commercial printers that are doing sheet-fed jobs using "XCMYK"?

This doesn't answer your question, however, I think it's worth mentioning for the record. XCMYK is Idealliance's misnamed standardization of an established method of expanding CMYK gamut. The method - DMAXX - was explained in marketing material I produced for creo back around 1999 and here in my post from 2009: http://the-print-guide.blogspot.ca/2009/01/printing-at-dmaxx-maximizing-cmyk-gamut.html

 

[Ferran]

Hi Marie, I think we have exchanged some emails and I am sure you already know that I work for a printing house located in Barcelona. At Litografia Roses we have printed a book using this technique, and I would like to share with you a recent article by Hugo Rodriguez, he talks about it.- I know, it is in spanish but anyway I think it is worth to read so I give you the original link and another one with the Google translation into english.

http://www.hugorodriguez.com/blog/2017/11/xcmyk-una-impresion-sideral/

https://translate.google.com/transl...com/blog/2017/11/xcmyk-una-impresion-sideral/


kind regards,
ferran

 

[Magnus]

I would like to hear Fogra/GMG's comments regarding XCMYK..

If I understand this correctly this is just another CMYK-profile with higher SID's then Fogra51/Fogra39. Of course the gamut will expand a bit. I think that many printers (and bookbinders!) will have problems with reaching the SID's needed to reach the XCMYK gamut cus of smudging, drying and other ink related problems. Maybe this would be more suitable if you have a UV drying system in the press.

 

[Shaare]

What I don't understand is this: Since the destination profile of a profiled press will inevitably remap everything, being the great equalizer that it is, what does it matter that the source CMYK profile is swop or gracol? Sure, if the source profile in inDesign/etc matches the one in the RIP then you won't have a potential color change since it won't to go LAB to get remapped to the printer's source cmyk profile du jour.

 

[arossetti]

What I don't understand is this: Since the destination profile of a profiled press will inevitably remap everything, being the great equalizer that it is, what does it matter that the source CMYK profile is swop or gracol?

It matters the most. Your destination profile will remap based on the directions of the source profile. Lets say you send a 100% cyan patch through your workflow. The file was created in CRPC5 (SWOP2013) and you honor that as the source at your RIP. The RIP takes 100% cyan and looks it up in SWOP2013, sees that it is a LAB value of 57,-37,-44 and finds the best way to output that LAB value based on your output profile. Your output profile might say that you need a CMYK value of 94,0,5,1. Now make a 100% cyan patch in CRPC6 (GRACoL2013) and the RIP finds the best way to output a LAB value of 56,-37,-50 which might be a CMYK value of 99,0,2,0.

1 CMYK formula from your file will output two different CMYK formulas at the printer based on the source profile.

 

[Paul Sherfield]

I have been testing XCMYK. Looks very interesting. Two key points. Start with RGB files/images. The press used must have UV drying in order to handle the greater ink film weights.

 

[arossetti]

I have been testing XCMYK. Looks very interesting. Two key points. Start with RGB files/images. The press used must have UV drying in order to handle the greater ink film weights.

Also needs FM screening correct?

 

[gordo]

Also needs FM screening correct?

Printing at higher than standard SIDs does not require FM screening. I believe the reason that idealliance used FM for their standard is that FM has a larger gamut than standard lpi AM screeing and larger gamut is one reason you might print at higher SIDs.

Paul Sherfield wrote "The press used must have UV drying in order to handle the greater ink film weights."

I don't know about the idealliance standard, but you don't need UV drying in order to print at higher than standard SIDs. If you have an aqueous coater you are good to go.

 

[gordo]

I am still not getting the answer but I got the question. Also, I found the answer.

???????? And so what’s the answer???

 

[Dario]

???????? And so what’s the answer???

..."42"?

 

[gordo]

..."42"?

That requires some Deep Thought ;-)

 

[Deleted member 16349]

I have been testing XCMYK. Looks very interesting. Two key points. Start with RGB files/images. The press used must have UV drying in order to handle the greater ink film weights.

I guess one could use higher strength inks that then would be printing at more normal ink films weights with the higher print density.

 

[gordo]

I guess one could use higher strength inks that then would be printing at more normal ink films weights with the higher print density.

S previously noted: http://the-print-guide.blogspot.ca/2009/06/hi-fi-color-8-strategies-to.html

 

[Deleted member 16349]

S previously noted: http://the-print-guide.blogspot.ca/2009/06/hi-fi-color-8-strategies-to.html

Never mind.

 

[Dario]

Hi Marie, I think we have exchanged some emails and I am sure you already know that I work for a printing house located in Barcelona. At Litografia Roses we have printed a book using this technique, and I would like to share with you a recent article by Hugo Rodriguez, he talks about it.- I know, it is in spanish but anyway I think it is worth to read so I give you the original link and another one with the Google translation into english.

http://www.hugorodriguez.com/blog/2017/11/xcmyk-una-impresion-sideral/

is there a way to get a copy of that book?
Or better: is there a way to get some printed samples ...somewhere??

Warm regards

 

[gordo]

is there a way to get a copy of that book?
Or better: is there a way to get some printed samples ...somewhere??

Warm regards

I don't know about his other books, but this one by photographer Art Wolfe was printed using DMAXX and 10 micron FM (I was involved in its production). It can be purchased here: https://tinyurl.com/y9u86zl7

 

[Ferran]

is there a way to get a copy of that book?
Or better: is there a way to get some printed samples ...somewhere??

Warm regards

Hi darioluca, as far as I know you should be able to buy the book online. It is available at several bookshoops.

https://www.libreriadesnivel.com/lib...9788469762127/
https://www.altair.es/es/libro/sideral_164325#

And just in case you had any question or if you want to order a copy directly from Marta, you can contact her (the author) here:
https://martabreto.com/book-sideral/

More info about the book can be found here:
https://martabreto.com/sideral-historia-de-un-proyecto/

kind regards,
ferran

 

[Dario]

Muchísimas gracias Ferran!

 

[[email protected]]

Go to any Chilis restaurant. Most of their menu products are printed using Method 3 in Gordo's paper, highly pigmented inks.
SIDs run in the 1.9 to 2.0 (status T) range for C & M with conventional ink film thicknesses. K is above 2.0.
This is done with special color management software which was developed specifically for this process.
Standard AM screening, coating and UV curing are optional.
The software is no longer available, though. It was on the market for several years, but has since been bought out exclusively for use by ColorMark Printing in Dallas.

Bill Atkinson, legendary Apple programmer, also published a book called "Within the Stone " using Method 3. He used custom inks and custom ICC profiles for each page. There is a PDF on one of his sites detailing the process of creating the book. The book is beautiful, so obviously it can be done with conventional color management, but it's not really commercially viable that way unless it's a very special job.


HTH,
-Don