J75 to Versant 2100?

[wonderings]

We have been having trouble with our J75 for the last 4 or 5 months. It was purchased new. The first 3 months of operation it ran well, nice colour, smooth on gradients, tints, etc. After that we started having trouble with 14 pt stock. The colour coming out mottled. This has been a fight ever since. We have had service over and over and have now gone up a level because we were assured this machine would handle the 14pt no problem. The head service guy for the area was here for 2 days working on it with no improvement. They took some of our stock to test on one of their own machines and had the same problem. They are going to supply some stock for us to try to see if it is the stock itself, but I am not so sure about that as the machine handled our stock perfectly the first 3 months. Xerox offered to replace the J75 with a new one, but unless we can get an answer to it being able to handle the 14pt, it makes no sense to replace with a new machine if we are just going to have the same problem again.

Anyways, something we have been mulling over is upgrading to the Versant 2100 as it is capable of doing heavier stocks. We are using the J75 to print at its heaviest setting, so pushing it to the max in that regard and I wonder if maybe that is the issue, we are at the top end of what it can handle.

So I guess I am looking for reviews from people using the 2100, and reviews from anyone who has moved from a J75/C75 to a Versant 2100. Problems, issues or complaints with the 2100? How has the colour consistency been? Alignment? Right now on the J75 I can run calibration for skew and it works really well, does the built in calibration for skew work as well?


thanks

 

[DYP]

I haven't noticed any big difference between 14pt on the 770 or the Versant. Isn't the J75 rated at 350GSM? I don't think you would gain much mottle wise. Doesn't the J75 have a gloss mode setting? On the 770 there is an NVM for gloss mode, yes it slows the engine down but you can get past a lot of imaging defects on heavy stock. There is no equivalent to gloss mode on the Versant so you have to use 2nd bias transfer settings and fuser temp settings to adjust for mottling.

What you are describing sounds like a 2nd bias transfer roller going bad, but they certainly would have replaced that I would think. Could be paper, what is it?

 

[wonderings]

I haven't noticed any big difference between 14pt on the 770 or the Versant. Isn't the J75 rated at 350GSM? I don't think you would gain much mottle wise. Doesn't the J75 have a gloss mode setting? On the 770 there is an NVM for gloss mode, yes it slows the engine down but you can get past a lot of imaging defects on heavy stock. There is no equivalent to gloss mode on the Versant so you have to use 2nd bias transfer settings and fuser temp settings to adjust for mottling.

What you are describing sounds like a 2nd bias transfer roller going bad, but they certainly would have replaced that I would think. Could be paper, what is it?

The J75 is rated for 300 gsm. The Verstant 2100 is 350.

Gloss mode does work... at times. Depends on the colours. They have pretty much replaced all the guts in this machine trying to sort this problem out. It has been very frustrating trying to find a solution, especially when Xerox cannot find it and they admit there is a problem.

 

[kdw75]

We have been having trouble with our J75 for the last 4 or 5 months. It was purchased new. The first 3 months of operation it ran well, nice colour, smooth on gradients, tints, etc. After that we started having trouble with 14 pt stock. The colour coming out mottled. This has been a fight ever since. We have had service over and over and have now gone up a level because we were assured this machine would handle the 14pt no problem. The head service guy for the area was here for 2 days working on it with no improvement. They took some of our stock to test on one of their own machines and had the same problem. They are going to supply some stock for us to try to see if it is the stock itself, but I am not so sure about that as the machine handled our stock perfectly the first 3 months. Xerox offered to replace the J75 with a new one, but unless we can get an answer to it being able to handle the 14pt, it makes no sense to replace with a new machine if we are just going to have the same problem again.

Anyways, something we have been mulling over is upgrading to the Versant 2100 as it is capable of doing heavier stocks. We are using the J75 to print at its heaviest setting, so pushing it to the max in that regard and I wonder if maybe that is the issue, we are at the top end of what it can handle.

So I guess I am looking for reviews from people using the 2100, and reviews from anyone who has moved from a J75/C75 to a Versant 2100. Problems, issues or complaints with the 2100? How has the colour consistency been? Alignment? Right now on the J75 I can run calibration for skew and it works really well, does the built in calibration for skew work as well?


thanks

We have the C75 and the 2100.

Our C75 never seemed to like some of our un-coated papers. It would start off ok, but then would look splotchy, like something had built up on the fuser, or belt. As long as we stuck to coated sheets, we never had any issues, other than having to replace developer and other expected maintenance parts.

Our 2100, while it only has 350K clicks on it, has never had any of the image quality issues, regardless of the paper. If you can afford it, the 2100 is a definite step up.

We had run some 14pt paper through our C75, and except for the slow speed, it ran just fine, though I never was brave enough to duplex it.

So far the alignment process, using the full width array on the 2100, has given me worthless results. I align everything manually, while on the C75 it worked pretty good. I am hoping the software updates will fix it on the 2100.

Have you considered the Versant 80 that's coming out around March? It has the fuser technology of the 2100, but costs about the same as the C75/J75. Oh and it runs 350gsm paper. Sounds like it might be a good fit for you.

The 2100 does NOT have the gloss mottle mode. It is very dull.

 

[wonderings]

We have the C75 and the 2100.

Our C75 never seemed to like some of our un-coated papers. It would start off ok, but then would look splotchy, like something had built up on the fuser, or belt. As long as we stuck to coated sheets, we never had any issues, other than having to replace developer and other expected maintenance parts.

Our 2100, while it only has 350K clicks on it, has never had any of the image quality issues, regardless of the paper. If you can afford it, the 2100 is a definite step up.

We had run some 14pt paper through our C75, and except for the slow speed, it ran just fine, though I never was brave enough to duplex it.

So far the alignment process, using the full width array on the 2100, has given me worthless results. I align everything manually, while on the C75 it worked pretty good. I am hoping the software updates will fix it on the 2100.

Have you considered the Versant 80 that's coming out around March? It has the fuser technology of the 2100, but costs about the same as the C75/J75. Oh and it runs 350gsm paper. Sounds like it might be a good fit for you.

The 2100 does NOT have the gloss mottle mode. It is very dull.

Thanks for the reply. What does not work well with the calibration for alignment? Does Xerox not stand behind it if it is not working properly? I thought the versant 2100 was supposed to have more vibrant colours, is this not the case?

I will look at the Versant 80, I had not heard of that model.

 

[DYP]

Thanks for the reply. What does not work well with the calibration for alignment? Does Xerox not stand behind it if it is not working properly? I thought the versant 2100 was supposed to have more vibrant colours, is this not the case?

I will look at the Versant 80, I had not heard of that model.

Alignment using the array will get you close but it seems not to be account if the sheet size is not cut totally accurate. It will adjust magnification which is problematic. I always have to make some adjustment to the alignment profile. I haven't attempted an alignment using the array since the last software update so I don't know if there is an improvement there or not.

As for the 2100 and more vibrant colors, absolutely it does, but this has nothing to do with "calibration for alignment" which is strange choice of words. There are alignment for paper marks under the array that I guess you could say in some way that is a calibration for alignment.

If you talking about using the array for color calibration. I wouldn't use it for color critical work or to create paper profiles which by the way can only be used in the initial calibration setup where you have to use the ES-2000 for calibration. None of this makes the array very useful for high end color management.

 

[kdw75]

I had initially dismissed the usefulness of the full width array for image alignment. After the recent engine firmware update though, I decided to give it another shot today, and it seems to be much improved. So rest assured that with the software fixes it is now a useful feature that will save time.

 

[hotrod1178]

Unless you are running 6 figures in volume, you may want to wait for the Versant 80. Xerox is retiring the C75 and J75 in the next few months in favor of this next generation. It will be rated at 350gsm (still 300gsm auto duplex).

 

[Craig]

The Versant 80 looks to be a re-skinned 700 series with maybe a few adjustments in firmware.

 

[hotrod1178]

yeah...There is probaby some of recycled hardware, but every manufacturer does that. The new versant fuser technology is cool and the software enhancements for print quality will be a nice addition to the C75 and J75 legacy too.

 

[PrintingFools]

My experience is that Xerox will find a way to get out of every issue you bring up. Their "go-to" out is that you will have to use Xerox paper in your machine. But, we all know that you cant because Xerox paper is to expensive. When you can buy paper from Kelly,Spicer,Xpedex or other. You will always lose the battle when dealing with Xerox. If they cant fix the problem, they will tell you to run a thinner paper and that it has to be a Xerox brand paper.

 

[kdw75]

My experience is that Xerox will find a way to get out of every issue you bring up. Their "go-to" out is that you will have to use Xerox paper in your machine. But, we all know that you cant because Xerox paper is to expensive. When you can buy paper from Kelly,Spicer,Xpedex or other. You will always lose the battle when dealing with Xerox. If they cant fix the problem, they will tell you to run a thinner paper and that it has to be a Xerox brand paper.

We have not had that experience. So far, they have fallen all over themselves to make sure we get problems fixed quickly, no matter how many parts they have to replace.

 

[DYP]

We have not had that experience. So far, they have fallen all over themselves to make sure we get problems fixed quickly, no matter how many parts they have to replace.

Same experience as kdw75. In fact I have even had the techs and salesmen call me and ask me to test other media.

 

[wonderings]

My experience is that Xerox will find a way to get out of every issue you bring up. Their "go-to" out is that you will have to use Xerox paper in your machine. But, we all know that you cant because Xerox paper is to expensive. When you can buy paper from Kelly,Spicer,Xpedex or other. You will always lose the battle when dealing with Xerox. If they cant fix the problem, they will tell you to run a thinner paper and that it has to be a Xerox brand paper.

They run all the tests, they brought in their own paper, same results. Their head service guy has spent a total of 4 or 5 days here trying to fix these problems with no results. They could not get their own demo machine to print our files properly. Xerox service has admitted there is a problem that they cannot fix. The step we are in right now is looking at what to change to. We need this sooner rather then later and will not wait till May with the 80i is released (this is the replacement to the k75, the Versant 80 is the replacement to the C75). They are going to give us some numbers for the 2100 today, will see what happens. Xerox has been good at admitting there is a problem, but been very slow in addressing it.

 

[csawatzki]

Have you tried both a different stock with comparable gsm? Also, does it do the same thing when you are not duplexed?

Cory Sawatzki
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