KM C5501 / 6501 Jamming on Gloss Stocks

[Nathan]

Hi all,

We have had a KM 5501 for a while now, and it consistently has difficulty with gloss stocks. Running even a small number (1,000 or less) of leaflets generates a significant amount of waste because of jamming. The rollers from the tray seem to slip and skid on the stock. Our engineer just keeps recommending that we clean them with rubber cleaning fluid, but that only seems to help for a few minutes. Used to use a 130 g/m2 stock consistently for leaflets, but we have since been using a 170 g/m2 stock on recommendation of KM. The change hasn't made much of a difference. Does anyone know any tips or tricks to make this stuff run better? Or should I just start ordering in silk stock?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If you have one of these machines and you don't have this issue, please let me know so that I'll know that it is a service issue.

Thanks,

-Nathan

 

[JayDA]

Do you have the pink or gray rollers?

 

[UberTech]

which tray are you feeding from?

 

[Nathan]

@JayDA: I have the pink rollers on the LCT, and the gray rollers everywhere else.

@UberTech: I normally feed through the LCT or the bypass. I have the same issue with either.

At first we thought that the thinner gloss stock was jamming in the fusing unit, but the jam code indicated the paper trays.

 

[rsands]

are your trays air fed? i.e. heated air blowing in to seperate the sheets?

 

[rsands]

KM call it the dehumidifier

 

[DPGate]

you can try to select paper as A4s this will not jam with you ... I already test this before ..
try and tell me what is going on ..

 

[Djenka]

I have difficulty with glossy 130-150 laser paper (IPM from Igepa), and only with that category paper (IPM laser glossy, silk 130-150 gr), but offset coated like Fedrigoni work just fine.

 

[Nathan]

@rsands: Yes, the LCT has that function. I usually leave it on. Do you think it makes a large difference?

@dpgate: the problem is, that doubles click costs. It's already hard enough to price competitively for digital print without double click costs looming over my head...

The paper I am using is A-OK Gloss. KM recommends using Mondi, but that stuff costs a bomb! Am I just going to have to order a ream to try?

 

[Djenka]

try offset coated. that is cheap paper.
no jam for Garda or Fedrigoni, only Garda have problem with grey scale if you have something in layout with gray.

 

[UberTech]

It's unusual to have the orange rollers on a LCT. I guess KM have tried this to cure the jamming?

Where does it jam? Sometimes you can get a jam that looks as if it is the LCT but is infact something a bit further down. A jam code would be helpfull.

Have you/they tried increasing the DFP pressure? If you open the door in between the LCT and the engine and look up you will see the feed unit for the LCT. It has a spring that can be placed in 5 or 6 positions. Put it on the one further most from you. This is the maximum setting.

If the paper is feeding in about 3-4 inch's and jamming it is probably the LCT reg roller covered in paper dust or glossed up. There are 4 screws that hold the cover down, you could try and pull it off and clean that roller, it's pretty common - it gets a bit glazed up.

If it is not even leaving the tray then you should ask them to fit a weight kit to the feed head (I haven't needed to on this model but the c500 which is similar just wouldn't feed without one). You could watch it feed if you removed the spring from the feed lift head and bypass the switch. Wouldn't try this unless you know what you are doing as there is a possibilty that the tray could get damaged.

 

[Steve_S]

Possibly the infeed sensor in between your LCT paper feed unit and the print engine, causing a timing error rather than a "true" jam. We have seen them covered in paper dust before. Odd that you have pink rollers in your LCT - might ask about that, too? We feed that weight of gloss all the time in Océ CS 650 and 665 - we can go thousands of sheets on a run and never see a jam.

 

[resolute]

Same Issue (jam on Gloss Stock)

Same Issue (jam on Gloss Stock)

Well. I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one with issues. I Have tried several different gloss text stocks and all have issues.

Mostly I have Jam J-1201 on text stock (from the paper trays) and J-3202 on Coated Cover Stock (Duplexing Unit is where the jams are with card stock). Our tech has weighed down the tray with a couple of coins. Still issues.

Text stock that we run is 140gsm (100lb. Gloss Text) and The cover stock is a Short Grain Gloss 2 Sided at 235 gsm.

Any Suggestions. We keep cleaning and replacing feed tires like there is no tomorrow. We get jams every 2 to 20 sheets.

Thanks in advance.

 

[UberTech]

J-1201 is from tray 2 and I wouldn't use the inbuilt engine trays for anything but slip sheets. 32-02 is a jam that indicates the paper is exiting the fuser but not travelling down the inversion unit. If you are printing simplex then you should try 'face up' delivery. If you are printing duplex you should adjust the exit roller nip to it's maximum. If your light stocks are short grain you will also see this type of problem. These feed units are pretty reliable so it's probably jamming somewhere else.

 

[Nathan]

I just tried running some 130 g/m2 through the bypass , it jammed on the first one with an error code of J-3202. Our engineer installed the pink rollers in the LCT to try and prevent jamming, and he attached a weight kit. ...don't think he tried increasing the DFP pressure, but I have just put it to the highest setting as you recommended.

Is there a roller shared by both trays that might be a bit glossed or dusty? The suggestion about the infeed sensor is interesting as well, as it does seem to be a timing issue. Also, we cut our paper down from SRA2 and everything does get a bit dusty... should probably invest in an air compressor...

 

[UberTech]

Perhaps your not reading my posts. J32-02 IS NOT A PAPER FEED JAM it is a fuser exit jam. Changing trays and tyres is not going to fix this problem. What grain is you paper. If you are printing on 130gsm and it is short grain expect fuser jams.

 

[Nathan]

Oh god...... Sorry UberTech, I must have missed that bit. I just phoned the paper manufacturers. I have been cutting long grain SRA2 down to SRA3...

I guess I'm going to have to start ordering SRA3 digital paper. I have had curling issues with uncoated stocks also. I suppose that the SRA2 / SRA3 grain issue could cause that too?

On a side note, printing face-up seems to help a bit. No good if I'm duplexing tho.

Well, I am off to order some Lumi Digital...

Thoroughly embarrassed.

Thanks for your wisdom everyone!