konica 6500 -xerox 5000

[random]

Re: konica 6500 -xerox 5000

Well I have trolled the threads here and the only one complianing about c6500's is you and you don't even own one!

Get your 'friend with a c6500' to contact me I will help them no problem! If an operator hasn't been trained properly then they inevitably have problems and blame the machine when they haven’t given themselves or the engine a chance!

Not entirely sure why the sheet entering the duplex while fusing has anything to do with quality. But I look forward to your explanation.

 

[Craig]

Re: konica 6500 -xerox 5000

Troll harder, 1st page of this thread, posts 5 and 6, just for starts.

Sheets entering duplex while fusing has absolutely nothing to do with quality of the print, just jamming. It's only common sense when you look at the paper path and see that the sheet is making drastic 180 degree turns, it's fine for 105 gsm paper but you (not you per say, but KM) are selling it to run 300 gsm and it may do it for a while, but it's bound to fail for those of us who are expected, by our customers to run it on a daily basis. What good is it to have a machine that needs constant attention to keep it running?

A CQ issue may mean the machine is fine for you (the tech) but in my case it is as good as down. If our machines can't print a sheet that is sellable then they are as good as down. Were not talking about an office environment where all you need is color on a sheet, this is print for pay. No print, no pay, that's the frame of mind that manufactures need to have, and it seems as if a few do and at least one more is getting to understand that.

 

[random]

Re: konica 6500 -xerox 5000

Yeah, you don't actually know what you are talking about.

The paper enters a decurler about 6 inchs after the fusing point at 90 degrees at best and the entire sheet does not actually enter the duplex unit until it is completed.

Good point about the 300gsm. This backs up my claim about poor training - c6500 does not duplex 300gsm automatically so this is probably why your friend is having so many problems. 300gsm exits directly out of the engine.

I have not sat down to investigate the paper path of a DC5000 so Im not about to make bold statements about it's short comings when I don't know what Im talking about.

I guess what I do know is xerox has had oil streaking problems since the 635\majestic and if they haven't fixed it in 10 years they aren't going to fix it tomorrow. Which is probably why they are trying to push there speeded up office machines 252/700.

As for daisy and Ian. Daisy has a rip problem not an engine problem and this has since been resolved, Ian probably has beers with you at the 'I know somebody who knows somebody bar'.

 

[BrentHals]

Re: konica 6500 -xerox 5000

Streaks are caused by fusing oil. All machines that use fusing oil will invariably have streaking issues at some point.

 

[Craig]

Streaks are caused by fusing oil. All machines that use fusing oil will invariably have streaking issues at some point.

So therefore, all machines that do not use fuser oil will never have marks caused by the fuser.

Which equates to all machines that use fuser oil are bad..... ie DocuColors, iGens, Nexpress...

Now I understand the mentality, it's all about fuser oil. If that's the only leg KM has to stand on, I'd suggest they get a wheelchair.

Fuser oil may be "old technology" but it sure works well! The combustion engine is "old technology", but I bet you used one today.

As for your comment on having streaks due to fuser oil. It's not the oil causing streaks, it is bad fuser rollers, which means they have reached the end of their life and need changed. Which is what happens to all ware items... they ware out and you replace them, not just keep using them a complain about the results.

 

[random]

Oil streaks can be due to fuser roller wear but generally this is not the case. In the fuser unit there is a supply roll and an oil blade. The oil blade sits on the doner roller like a wiper blade on your windscreen and meters oil evenly across the fuser roller. The problem is paper dust gets on the fuser roller and then onto the doner roller and eventually this blocks the oil blade. Ever driven with stuffed wiper blades? They tried to make a helical oil roller to shift conataminates to one end but this didn't really work.

No fuser oil is not the only leg Konica stands on, if it was it would be a very strong leg as my customers like the fact they can laminate there prints with out the laminate flying off and the fact the print dosen't look like it has obviously come off a lazer printer.

The print quality off a c6500 is astounding in the right hands and the new version has a High Chroma toner that if it is actually possible improves the print further.

Not mention 24 configurations ..... the list goes on.

Good comparsion to the internal combustion engine. The car I had 10 years ago (like most cars back then!) leaked oil like there was no tomorrow but now due to evolution in the automotive industry getting a new car the leaks oil is pretty unlikely.

 

[Craig]

You know I am just yanking your chain.... I hope!

Every machine has it's strong points and it's weak points. That's why there is such a diversity out there. It's our (owners) job to find the machine that best fits our needs.

That being said, I feel that if asked a question about a machine, it shouldn't be sugar coated like the answer you get from a salesperson. I have had the misfortune of being stuck in a situation with a model of machine (I had the machine replaced twice) that was an absolute lemon, and I would hate for someone else to go through the same situation if it could be avoided by honest answers. I also don't feel that broad answers like fuser oil is bad is correct either. My DocuColor 8000AP has not produced fuser oil streaks and it has 600,000 on it with it's 3rd set of fuser rollers/parts. A lot has to due with the maintenance of the equipment and the quality of paper run through it too.

Good honest points of view are what people are expecting, let's just give them that. Point out the good as well as the bad. (I know it's hard for those who are employed by the manufactures or their representatives.) There is no need for a pi$$ing match over who's is bigger or better.

 

[random]

I agree good honest facts are best for everyone but on this site all I have found is people bagging a product they don't own. This is unfair and puts a bad light on a product that doesn't deserve it.

No one knows me here but if it's a dog I will say it's a dog. For instance the c500 is a dog If you had a c500 I would say you would more than likely not buy a c6500 by this experience alone. So a qoute from the dark knight - comparing a c6500 and a c500 is like comparing Halle Berry and Roseanne Barr.

The problem here is people have gone thru some sort of brainwashing. No one would considering buying anything but what brand they have as there conditioning tells them anything less is doing yourself an injustice. This is obviously not true. All this does is create a monopoly where the incumbent charges you 30-40% more in an area 'controlled' than a area where there is competition.

So do yourself a favour even if you would not even consider a Konica atleast drop the K word in the demo to get some feedback, tell me what they tell you and I will tell you the honest truth. Im not even in North America so I have nothing to gain\lose by being honest.

Konica won't have an 80 pager till next year so no comparison with regards to 8000AP.

 

[Craig]

I So a qoute from the dark knight - comparing a c6500 and a c500 is like comparing Halle Berry and Roseanne Barr.

Now I have a legitimate gripe with you, Roseanne Bar is HOT! I just downloaded her greatest vocal hit too! LOL

 

[etgraphics]

6500 Lightweight

6500 Lightweight

I have just invested in the Canon 7000VP and I have to say this is the best machine its ever been my pleasure to work with. We owned 2 x 6060 machines and prior to that the 2060. The 2060 was great but we had endless problems with the 6060 machines recording 18 failures in less than 2 months on one machine and 4 of those took a day to resolve. At that point I believed the sales rep (fatal mistake) and bought a Konica 6500. It worked OK for 2 months although the colours were not that good. Most of our printing was on 210gsm card and after a while we had skewing problems, feeding problems, big duplex errors in registration, colour drop off from one side of the page to the other, blotchy print, you name it. The techs blamed everythin but the machine.
It's a lightweight office copier that works OK on paper but otherwise is only one step removed from that heap of junk the C500. If you are serious about print then give that machine a big swerve.
I am trying to get them to take it back but they are in total denial despite the evidence. Pay three times the price and buy a seriuos printer. We have clocked up 50K in 3 weeks on the 7000VP and it's perfect. Registration less than .5mm error, duplexes 300gam and near offset quality. They gave me a set of prints to archive and said it will always perform to that standard.
A photographer sent me an unsolicited testimonial. They were delighted. Yes! At last something that works.

 

[random]

Yawn.

 

[Craig]

What was that I heard.... an actual owner calling a 6500 an office copier?

etgraphics, I hope your 7000VP keeps on performing for you! I am having the same experience with our 8000AP. Since you have both the 6500 and the 7000VP I have a question for you. When you compare the the mechanics of the 2 machines can you see why you are having problems with the 6500? What I am getting at is the size of the print engine, paper paths, there is a reason your 7000VP and my 8000AP cost more and perform much better than the 6500, right?

After looking very close at a 6500 at GraphExpo, I confirmed my suspicion, the 6500 is nothing more than a beefed up office copier, for very light production at the most. Anyone expecting more will be setting themselves up for the same results as you.

 

[TnT]

We have clocked up 50K in 3 weeks on the 7000VP and it's perfect. Registration less than .5mm error, duplexes 300gam and near offset quality. They gave me a set of prints to archive and said it will always perform to that standard.
A photographer sent me an unsolicited testimonial. They were delighted. Yes! At last something that works.

How are you finding up time of this machine? We're currently outsourcing to someone using 7000VP and I love the result from it, (more importantly so do my customers), but the guy who owns it seems to have a lot of downtime.

I've currently got Canon chasing me on a C6000 purchase. I have to admit to being a little gun shy after my Xerox exprience and am happy to have someone else carry the onus of running the machine at the moment so I can concentrate on business growth, rather than battling with equipment. On the other hand, it is costing me more...

 

[random]

From my reading this is this guys 6th digital machine and other than the 2060, the only one he likes and that is probably because anything would be better than a 4040. I think the problems are in the mirror rather than the kit. He is at the dawn of ANOTHER machine the only difference is that he has paid 3 times as much to end up at the same point, hilarious. Come back in two months ET and we will see if your experiences match up with everyone else's.

http://printplanet.com/forums/digit...5778-canon-7000-registration-issues#post96802

http://printplanet.com/forums/digital-printing-discussion/14613-canon-7000-a#post89540

http://printplanet.com/forums/digital-printing-discussion/14613-canon-7000-a#post89579

 

[Craig]

From my reading this is this guys 6th digital machine and other than the 2060, the only one he likes and that is probably because anything would be better than a 4040. I think the problems are in the mirror rather than the kit. He is at the dawn of ANOTHER machine the only difference is that he has paid 3 times as much to end up at the same point, hilarious. Come back in two months ET and we will see if your experiences match up with everyone else's.

http://printplanet.com/forums/digit...5778-canon-7000-registration-issues#post96802

http://printplanet.com/forums/digital-printing-discussion/14613-canon-7000-a#post89540

http://printplanet.com/forums/digital-printing-discussion/14613-canon-7000-a#post89579

I see you completely skirted the fact that he dislikes his 6500.... you know, the one he actually owns and operates, and has legitimate problems with. But of course it all operator error, or better yet it's the paper!
He paid 3 times as much because there is 3 times the amount of machine in the 7000VP. The 6500 is nothing but a Fast Plastic engine, with finishers hanging off the back end. I bet you can actually recycle 80% of the box when you are done with it, hell that's an environmental marketing plan for KM!

 

[random]

Yeah, I acknowledge he doesn't like his 65. I also acknowledge he doesn't like the other 4 machines, or does this mean every machine other than a 2060 and 7000 is a piece of junk? No, one would suggest otherwise. Your qwik skim past the 65 at the show does not consitute a valued opinion Craig. If it did the I could say many things that were not factual about the 8000 and expect everyone to beleave me.

 

[Craig]

If it did the I could say many things that were not factual about the 8000 and expect everyone to beleave me.

You have stretched the truth quite a bit, gotta keep it slanted towards the KM, but I understand where you are coming from, after all they put your food on the table.

 

[random]

If you would like to point out to the group when I have actually "streched the truth". I know you haven't streched the truth as you don't know what it is. You fabricate your own reality.

 

[Techguy]

KM C6500 -vs- Xerox 5000

KM C6500 -vs- Xerox 5000

Each machine has a place in the market. You really need to determine what is most important to your business. Quality and reliability can be obtained with a good service provider. Cpc costs should be from .049 to .079 depending on volume, term of contract and single click vs. double click rate. Most Xerox vendors will run single click and most KM vendors run double click, make sure you know what your service provider is quoting.

Lastly you get what you pay for! Xerox is more money; it can be worth every penny if your business is geared toward a higher end market.

KM has found a good percentage of this market, but it is cost driven. Look carefully at what is going to grow your business!:

 

[smatros]

For 30,000 copies you should be paying a service base price of $1990.00 which is .066/copy and the overage should be at .049/copy. I assume the pricing on the 260 would be similar.

The pricing on 260 has to be quite higher, Xerox always respects policy "the more you spend on machine, the less you pay per click".

The only downside in my opinion is the glossy output on the 5000, which is also harder to laminate. But maybe with the AP version this was improved as well? Otherwise check the 7000, which has in my opinion much nicer print.