Konica Hikari/AccurioFlux VS Fiery

[Eric Boucher]

Hi, we are about to sign for a C3080 with 2 PF-707 paper feeders and IQ-501. I can’t decide on the RIP, external IC-313 Fiery or internal IC-605 Konica coupled with the AccurioFlux Premium software.

We won’t be using much of the AccurioFlux software but I am told we need the premium version to be able to use virtual printers.

In the end both Konica or Fiery rips come out at about the same price...

Sales rep tells me the Konica RIP can do everything the Fiery does, and would even be better since everything in the machine is Konica (especially with the IQ-501). I want to believe him, it makes sense but then again...

I welcome anyone with experience on either platform to share their thoughts!

Thanks!

 

[jwheeler]

Hi Eric, I responded to this same question on your other post. What specific concerns do you have. I am not only a KM customer having used both KM and Fiery extensively in our shop, but I also used to sell KM production gear before this job so I was trained from their side on the differences.

 

[Eric Boucher]

Hi Eric, I responded to this same question on your other post. What specific concerns do you have. I am not only a KM customer having used both KM and Fiery extensively in our shop, but I also used to sell KM production gear before this job so I was trained from their side on the differences.

Hi, yes I know, you've supplied tons of useful info! I guess I'm just really undecided and trying to get other people's insight...

My main concern is the Fiery is external and is way more expensive so I have a feeling it will have more power and stability. And I know Fiery works.

The KM controller is embedded and in our case it comes at the same price just because we need to purchase the "Premium" AccurioFlux software to have our virtual printers. I'm feeling we're basically paying for a lot of software we don't need.

For the same money would I be getting more of what we actually need with Fiery?

I'm demoing the KM controller in a print shop on tuesday, we'll see how that goes.

Konica haven't failed us so far and I'm very happy with the machine we have so I want to trust them on being able to deliver a good controller and good software. Their approach to doing business looks like they are.

Thanks again!

 

[jwheeler]

As I mentioned before...the KM controller is great. However, it will be a learning curve and you might find the Flux software a bit clunky. If you have experience with Fiery and you're used to it, and it's no price difference, then stay with Fiery. You definitely won't gain anything new with the KM controller.

 

[Eric Boucher]

As I mentioned before...the KM controller is great. However, it will be a learning curve and you might find the Flux software a bit clunky. If you have experience with Fiery and you're used to it, and it's no price difference, then stay with Fiery. You definitely won't gain anything new with the KM controller.

Just demoed the Konica controller and AccurioFlux software at a print shop yesterday. It seemed pretty streamlined and efficient. Not too different from Fiery. I didn't see the "clunkyness" in it (yet?). I feel the Fiery is a bit clunky in some ways.

In the end the sales rep did a good job and I have decided to go with the Konica controller (before reading this last post of yours...). I guess I now have a few years ahead to make up my mind.

We're signing the contrat tomorrow!

For anyone interested I'll post again when the machine is up and running.

 

[Shredder]

I'm running into same issue. For me the fiery is cheaper but I prefer the simplicity of KM controller. I have had too many issues with fiery's going down in the past. I just dont understand why the KM controller is soo expensive. When they first marketted it, it was a super cheap alternative.

 

[Eric Boucher]

I'm running into same issue. For me the fiery is cheaper but I prefer the simplicity of KM controller. I have had too many issues with fiery's going down in the past. I just dont understand why the KM controller is soo expensive. When they first marketted it, it was a super cheap alternative.

Make sure of what you compare. Most of the times there’s an internal Fiery (cheaper) with basic features and an external server Fiery (more expensive) with more power, more features and options. Pricewise the Konica controller should come somewhere in between those two. The only reason it comes out as expensive as the external Fiery for us is because we’re adding the premium version of the Accurioflux software (with more features than the Fiery in the end). If you’re on a budget the Konica controller should be a good option...

 

[Shredder]

I don't need the features. Sending print jobs should be a painless and seemless process. Command workstation would crash on us when sending huge illustrator files, especially graphic intensive books (alot of what we do). I hate paying for something out of my pocket and getting second rate product.

 

[jwheeler]

I'm running into same issue. For me the fiery is cheaper but I prefer the simplicity of KM controller. I have had too many issues with fiery's going down in the past. I just dont understand why the KM controller is soo expensive. When they first marketted it, it was a super cheap alternative.

@Shredder , I don't know which print engine your getting, but either way, the KM controller is half the price of the smaller Fiery, and about 1/5 the price of the bigger Fiery. (I used to sell KM Production gear). The KM controller on the C3070/C3080 series can become the same price as the smaller Fiery if they are adding the APPE option (adobe PDF print Engine), but not more expensive. This is useful to overcome common transparency issues, but not necessary. Ask if they are adding the UK-208 (APPE Kit) and UK-104 (Memory Kit) and if so, to remove them.

If you just need File>Print, the KM controller is perfect for that. It even comes with it's own version of Command Workstation so you can have a queue of jobs, and it has the ability to create color profiles and manipulate spot colors with Job Centro...both of which are included with the KM controller.

 

[Shredder]

Fiery IC-313

I'm still having a hard time debating between this and the IC-604. The IC-604 is coming a few thousand higher than this directly from KM dealer. I do need to buy a VI-509 for $350 as well for the fiery. I know Fiery's are generally more sought out for. Also, I want to implement web to print and not sure which will be better for it (km vs fiery).

 

[jwheeler]

Fiery IC-313

I'm still having a hard time debating between this and the IC-604. The IC-604 is coming a few thousand higher than this directly from KM dealer. I do need to buy a VI-509 for $350 as well for the fiery. I know Fiery's are generally more sought out for. Also, I want to implement web to print and not sure which will be better for it (km vs fiery).

The only reason there's a price difference is because you're looking at a used unit on Ebay vs buying one new. If you were to buy that Fiery new, it would be significantly higher than the KM controller.

 

[Shredder]

It's not really used. It's sold by the The world's ONLY Fiery-DIRECT Server Controller Solutions and Repair. It's made to order and comes with lifetime guarantee.

Now, whether its used or new is not important to me. What is important to me is I don't buy the wrong one. I dont want to be gripping for next ~10 years that I should have gotten fiery instead of KM or KM instead of fiery.

 

[jwheeler]

It's not really used. It's sold by the The world's ONLY Fiery-DIRECT Server Controller Solutions and Repair. It's made to order and comes with lifetime guarantee.

Now, whether its used or new is not important to me. What is important to me is I don't buy the wrong one. I dont want to be gripping for next ~10 years that I should have gotten fiery instead of KM or KM instead of fiery.

If you're used to the Fiery and it's lower cost, then get the Fiery. Just be sure it comes with the connection kit (Called the VI-509 Video Interface Kit) as well and it's formatted for the model you choose. The IC-313 works for the C3070, C3080, C6085, and C6100. Also, make sure it's updated to the latest V2.0 and Windows 10.

 

[Shredder]

What OS does KM controller use? Linux? Somehow windows 10 scares me. If it was XP or windows 7 I would be less bothered. 10 years from now I don't know how well windows 10 is going to fare.

 

[jwheeler]

What OS does KM controller use? Linux? Somehow windows 10 scares me. If it was XP or windows 7 I would be less bothered. 10 years from now I don't know how well windows 10 is going to fare.

Yes, Linux

 

[Shredder]

Thanks. How long do you think the C6100 will last in terms of impressions? The figure I heard for C6000 was 8M. Can the C6100 do much more considering its monthly duty cycle is much, much higher -2M/month? If it did 2M per month for 3 years thats 72M impressions.

 

[jwheeler]

Thanks. How long do you think the C6100 will last in terms of impressions? The figure I heard for C6000 was 8M. Can the C6100 do much more considering its monthly duty cycle is much, much higher -2M/month? If it did 2M per month for 3 years thats 72M impressions.

The monthly duty cycle from any manufacturer is a perfect world scenario not based on how durable a machine is, but how many impressions it can run in a given month based on speed. It is not a rating of durability. That's why the C6085 and C6100 have different duty cycles even though they are the exact same engine...just different speeds. I don't remember the exact formula, but it's something like the "rated copies per minute", multiplied by X number of hours in a day for X number of days in a month if it were possible to run non-stop. And it's based on 8.5x11 20# bond. Most shops don't run one job non stop on 20# bond. They switch between heavier and lighter stocks, they do different sizes up to 13x19, and so on.
When I sold the machine, I felt very comfortable in environments doing about 100,000 sheets of 12x18 per month which is 200,000 letter sized impressions...and I know it would last 5+ years doing that. As for a total number of clicks for the lifetime, in reality they can just keep going if you keep replacing parts. It's hard for any manufacturer to say how many impressions a machine will last for because of all the paper type variables, but I would feel comfortable saying 8-10M and beyond if it was well cared for.

 

[Shredder]

That's disappointing, I was hoping after 10+ years they would improve durability of the unit. I imagine it would go against their interest. What part is the most expensive to replace/fix? Years ago there was issues with fiery controllers failing, I imagine that is not common anymore. The only other part I know that is very expensive is the fusing unit. But I can't imagine that failing until half life of the machine.

 

[jwheeler]

That's disappointing, I was hoping after 10+ years they would improve durability of the unit. I imagine it would go against their interest. What part is the most expensive to replace/fix? Years ago there was issues with fiery controllers failing, I imagine that is not common anymore. The only other part I know that is very expensive is the fusing unit. But I can't imagine that failing until half life of the machine.

I'm not sure which part of what I said was disappointing...? I often relate digital presses to cars. If they are well maintained, and you replace parts that go bad, they can theoretically run forever. Copiers (regardless of whether it's Konica or another brand) are even easier to maintain as most of the main components are easily replaced by the operator. You could keep it long enough and keep replacing parts to get to that 72M mark, but after 5-7 years, most print shops want to upgrade to the latest technology...typically you'll see faster speeds, larger sheets, different finishing options, better image control, etc. I had customers upgrade a press after 5 years with only 2M impressions, and other shops after 5 years put 20-30M impressions. It just depends on your shop. And to your 72M number, that's 1.2M per month consistently. If you're doing that volume, it would be a terrible idea to only have 1 digital press running 100ppm. You should probably have 3 machines to do that volume.

As for the most expensive parts...I really can't answer that as I didn't sell parts. I sold machines with maintenance plans that covered all of the components. And yes, Fiery's do crash sometimes and have to either be re-imaged or completely replaced. It can be difficult to find a replacement if you have a 10-12 year old machine.

 

[OffsetStorefront]

What OS does KM controller use? Linux? Somehow windows 10 scares me. If it was XP or windows 7 I would be less bothered. 10 years from now I don't know how well windows 10 is going to fare.

I believe the Fiery does its RIP work in a small Linux box buried deep down but has a Win7/10 interface for the user.