Konica Minolta C3070...Any Opinions? Things to look out for?

[gazfocus]

So, after struggling for the past two years with a Xerox C560, we have bit the bullet and ordered a brand new Konica Minolta C3070. We've ordered it with the twin oversize high capacity trays, FS-532 Staple Finisher and with the 2/4 hole punch kit, but nothing else. We've also gone for the embedded fiery rip and Konica have thrown in a free ES-2000 Spectrophotometer.

Coming from the Xerox C560 I'm expecting the Konica to be in a different league but I'm just wondering if anyone here has one and if there's anything I should test as soon as I can? Any teething issues to look out for?

Excited to say the least. We think we got a pretty good deal, and click charges are 2.85p colour and 0.7p mono so much cheaper to run than the Xerox as well.

 

[Steve0]

I work for Konica production print in the US. If I could make one recommendation, when you say you got the "twin oversize high capacity trays" I assume you mean the friction-fed paper feed unit, model PF-602. Nearly all of my customers who get a paper feed unit opt for the vacuum-fed model, PF-707. The more you run coated stock or heavyweight stock (by that I mean heavier than 300gsm), the more you'll appreciate the PF-707. Congratulations on your investment.

 

[gazfocus]

I work for Konica production print in the US. If I could make one recommendation, when you say you got the "twin oversize high capacity trays" I assume you mean the friction-fed paper feed unit, model PF-602. Nearly all of my customers who get a paper feed unit opt for the vacuum-fed model, PF-707. The more you run coated stock or heavyweight stock (by that I mean heavier than 300gsm), the more you'll appreciate the PF-707. Congratulations on your investment.

Hmm you have me concerned now. The main selling point that the sales guy had over the Xerox V180 was that the c3070 is vacuum fed, but he had always said it was the 2 tray feeder (can't remember why he didn't recommend the 3 tray one...is it significantly more?). I will be really p****d if he's lumbered me with the friction fed after all that.

Edit: I've just had a look at the specs of the PF-602m and it looks like the PF-602m is an air assisted feeder, where the PF-707 is an air suction feeder. Is there much difference in performance?

 

[Steve0]

Hmm you have me concerned now. The main selling point that the sales guy had over the Xerox V180 was that the c3070 is vacuum fed, but he had always said it was the 2 tray feeder (can't remember why he didn't recommend the 3 tray one...is it significantly more?). I will be really p****d if he's lumbered me with the friction fed after all that.

Edit: I've just had a look at the specs of the PF-602m and it looks like the PF-602m is an air assisted feeder, where the PF-707 is an air suction feeder. Is there much difference in performance?

Both the PF-602 and the PF-707 have air assist; but the PF-602 has ribbed rollers the pull the top sheet into the paper path, whereas the PF-707 has a vacuum behind a perforated belt that moves the top sheet into the paper path.

The C3070 is spec'ed for up to 350gsm paper weight, but only with the PF-707, and in all three trays. With the PF-602, the spec is up to 300gsm, and only in the lower tray (the upper tray is up to 256gsm). That means you will not get the benefit of automatic tray switching with 100# cover stock (271gsm) with the PF-602 for longer runs.

You'll have more flexibility keeping more different kinds of stock on line with 3 trays in the PFU instead of 2.

The PF-602 has a total capacity of 6,000 sheets (based on 20# bond/50# offset); the PF-707, up to 4,630 sheets, because of the space the vacuum mechanisms take up. Besides lesser cost, higher capacity may be the only advantage of the PF-602.

Both PFU's are spec'ed for coated sheets in all trays.

Depending on how your vendor structured price, the uptick from the PF-602 to the PF-707 varies. While the cost differential between the two PFUs, taken alone, is not slight, the differential in the total cost of the C3070 will be incremental -- especially in terms of a monthly payment.

The choice to opt for a PF-602 instead of a PF-707 is almost always budget-driven; and if budget is a real constraint, there are other options (e.g., the LU-202 or the LU-202XL, which offers banner sheet feeding). From a functionality standpoint, the PF-707 offers you more, and again, it's the only choice that gets you 350gsm weight -- better for business cards.

Honestly, I don't remember when's the last time I sold a PF-602. For a bit more of an investment, you can have significantly more functionality with a PF-707. In my opinion, the choice of a PF-602 is a false economy.

The more you run coated and cover-weight stocks, the more you'll appreciate the PF-707.

 

[gazfocus]

Both the PF-602 and the PF-707 have air assist; but the PF-602 has ribbed rollers the pull the top sheet into the paper path, whereas the PF-707 has a vacuum behind a perforated belt that moves the top sheet into the paper path.

The C3070 is spec'ed for up to 350gsm paper weight, but only with the PF-707, and in all three trays. With the PF-602, the spec is up to 300gsm, and only in the lower tray (the upper tray is up to 256gsm). That means you will not get the benefit of automatic tray switching with 100# cover stock (271gsm) with the PF-602 for longer runs.

You'll have more flexibility keeping more different kinds of stock on line with 3 trays in the PFU instead of 2.

The PF-602 has a total capacity of 6,000 sheets (based on 20# bond/50# offset); the PF-707, up to 4,630 sheets, because of the space the vacuum mechanisms take up. Besides lesser cost, higher capacity may be the only advantage of the PF-602.

Both PFU's are spec'ed for coated sheets in all trays.

Depending on how your vendor structured price, the uptick from the PF-602 to the PF-707 varies. While the cost differential between the two PFUs, taken alone, is not slight, the differential in the total cost of the C3070 will be incremental -- especially in terms of a monthly payment.

The choice to opt for a PF-602 instead of a PF-707 is almost always budget-driven; and if budget is a real constraint, there are other options (e.g., the LU-202 or the LU-202XL, which offers banner sheet feeding). From a functionality standpoint, the PF-707 offers you more, and again, it's the only choice that gets you 350gsm weight -- better for business cards.

Honestly, I don't remember when's the last time I sold a PF-602. For a bit more of an investment, you can have significantly more functionality with a PF-707. In my opinion, the choice of a PF-602 is a false economy.

The more you run coated and cover-weight stocks, the more you'll appreciate the PF-707.

Thanks for clarifying Steve. Are you a able to give an indication of the difference in cost between the two feeders?

Looks like I’ll be going back to our sales rep and kicking up a fuss. Definitely told them we needed to be able to duplex 350gsm so if we can’t even feed 350gsm into the printer, it’s not going to be what we asked for.

Hopefully it’s not too late to change it.

 

[gazfocus]

Have just spoken to our sales rep and we're getting the feeder swapped for the PF-707. He did say we could probably get away with 350gsm in the PF-602 but I'm actually hoping we'll get away with 400gsm in the PF-707

 

[Steve0]

Have just spoken to our sales rep and we're getting the feeder swapped for the PF-707. He did say we could probably get away with 350gsm in the PF-602 but I'm actually hoping we'll get away with 400gsm in the PF-707

Good, I'm glad to hear you were able to make the change. But when a sales rep says, "You can get away with <insert out-of-spec feature here>," I cringe. Because even though the machine is sold as "overbuilt," if you use the machine out-of-spec, that increases wear-and-tear, which in turn leads to lower reliability, which in turn reduces longevity.

You can do what you want with your machine, but I'd encourage you to work within specifications for best results and highest reliability.

 

[phoenixrje]

One thing to check once the Konica is installed is to make sure you are being charged a 2up click charge (for 12x18 and 13x19). When our Konica was installed, by default our click charge was set up for 8.5x11, and when we ran 12x18 we were being charged double. Konica ended up giving us a credit for this issue. I'm sure the installers will know about this.

 

[jwheeler]

I too work for KM and completely agree with everything SteveO said. One other Advantage with the PF-707m is you can add features as your needs grow such as the envelope kit, banner trays, and up to 2 more sets of PF-707m drawers. There is a bypass tray option that allows you to print up to 51” Long simplex and even 30” duplex so you can output tri-panel 8.5x11 brochures in a single pass (25.5” wide folded to 8.5”). You can also connect a LU-202xlm which is a 30” high capacity drawer.

 

[Puch]

Dear jwheeler & Steve0,

regarding this particular machine I wonder if I can use the paper feeder and a stapler of an 'older' machine with a C3070? We're constantly fed with the info that our current machine (a C1085 bought three and a half years ago) actually worth nothing or just pennies, and in case of a new lease, we have to buy a new PF-707 and a stapler. Our KM rep says that our feeder and stapler (in pristine condition) has to be scrapped, since they can't be connected to a new engine. Is that true?

 

[gazfocus]

Dear jwheeler & Steve0,

regarding this particular machine I wonder if I can use the paper feeder and a stapler of an 'older' machine with a C3070? We're constantly fed with the info that our current machine (a C1085 bought three and a half years ago) actually worth nothing or just pennies, and in case of a new lease, we have to buy a new PF-707 and a stapler. Our KM rep says that our feeder and stapler (in pristine condition) has to be scrapped, since they can't be connected to a new engine. Is that true?

I’d actually be interested in the answer to that also. We have ordered the FS-532 finisher with our C3070, but when you google the FS-532, it’s been used on many previous generations of Konica machines, so does that mean the finishers from previous gen machines will work on the c3070?

 

[jwheeler]

Puch and Gazfocus, the PF-707 will not work on the c3070. It now uses the PF-707m. They may look identical on the outside but there are internal differences and firmware differences. As for the FS-532 and other finishers...that’s a bit more complicated of an answer. The older ones are compatible with the newer print engines up to a certain series of serial numbers (serial number of the finisher, not the print engine). I hesitate to give you the series of numbers because you are both in different countries and your regions might have different batches of production and policies than we do here in the USA. But I’m guessing at 3.5 years old, your finisher might be out of range.

One last thought for Puch...did you trade in the C1085 or keep it? I don’t know how many clicks are on the meter, but at only 3.5 years old, it should still have plenty of life left. It would be a good unit to hang on for some redundancy.

 

[Puch]

One last thought for Puch...did you trade in the C1085 or keep it? I don’t know how many clicks are on the meter, but at only 3.5 years old, it should still have plenty of life left. It would be a good unit to hang on for some redundancy.

Our C1085 is beyond hope. After an incredible number of servicing, it's still producing blotches of ink, stripes, scratches and intermittent fading on printed sheets. The first 100 sheets are acceptable, the remainder of the production must be sorted by the operators. On top of that, it developed a very strange 'noisy' look in the light & midtone ranges, especially on skintones and sky (clouds) and synthetic flat tones. We can't print anything but simple text & graphics on white. What I gather from rumours is that the C1085 & C1100 got the same bad respect as their predecessor C8000, and KM started to phase them out silently (at least here,) because of the skyrocketing servicing and parts cost.

Now the problem is that they want to sell us a C3070 with a new contract, saying that our 3 years old flagship machine worth nothing. It still has 1.5 years of lease to go, though. I think we'll go to court if they won't offer something acceptable.

 

[gazfocus]

If you are having all of those problems, my instinct would be to force them to get the machine to a fully working state and say to them, once you’ve got a fully working machine, you’ll discuss an upgrade unless they are going to wipe off the remainder of your lease in exchange for a new lease on the new machine.

I certainly wouldn’t accept an upgrade if you are made responsible for the remainder of the current lease, and would emphasise the question of why should you trust them with a new contract when they’ve not held up their end of the deal with your current machine.

 

[jwheeler]

Puch, I’ve had nearly a dozen C8000 customers trust us to upgrade to the C1085/C1100 and they have all been very happy. My service team and I personally have been very happy with those engines because of how much less service calls we have, the color issues were fixed, the registration issue was fixed...and they just work like they are supposed to! As Gazfocus mentioned, I would insist on a full PM (preventative maintenance). And ask them to replace (not clean or repair) the fuser, drums, filters, cleaning blade, corona wires, etc. Out here we also have a “next level” service group of top notch trouble shooters who come out and figure out what’s going on. You might ask if that’s available in your area. Other than that, if you’re happy with the deal they are offering you on the C3070 and your monthly payment is staying around the same, you will like the new engine.