KONICA MINOLTA C4070 PRICE

[willvp2408]

Hello, I am currently running a Konica Minolta c1060. My lease is almost us. My dealer is quoting me on a new machine. How do I know if this is a good price or not? How can I compare this? Not like I can get another dealer farther away to give me a quote. How do you truly know they are giving you a good deal? They are quoting me on a KM 4070 with the options I have now on my current C1060. I have tried to get them to find me a 3070 but they have stated they can't do that because they would not be able to warranty the unit. Even if the unit is coming out of a contract with another KM dealer. Makes no sense to me. Just wondering if anybody knows how to know if you are getting a good deal. Thanks

 

[jwheeler]

Is the lease price and service contract in line with what you were paying on the C1060? That's a good place to start since it worked for you until now. Additionally, reach out to Canon, Ricoh, and Xerox to get bids on their comparable models. This will achieve 2 things...not only will you see if you're getting a decent deal, but you can use those other bids as leverage against KM to get them to sharpen their pencil.

As for the used C3070, if you're dealing with KM corporate as opposed to a dealer, they are not lying to you. I used to work for KM corporate selling production machines. We didn't hold the leases on the equipment, a 3rd party finance company did. So when customers upgraded their equipment, we didn't get to keep their old machines to resell them. It went to the leasing company who would then use equipment brokers to re-sell them. There was a rare occasion where a customer owned their machine outright, and didn't want to deal with getting it off their property, so we'd pick it up as part of the deal. However, those machines were generally much older models, and we didn't want to put them on a contract as they would be end of life soon (meaning parts would not be available soon). In the rare occurance that it was a recent model, they were resold instantly as there was generally a waiting list. Lastly, the C40xx series was just launched...so most C30xx series would still be under leases.

 

[farcrowd]

Exactly what @jwheeler said. You have to let them know you're shopping around, and he is correct about the third-party lease companies.

 

[willvp2408]

Thanks for the reply. I am reaching out to other manufacturers. I was thinking about keeping my c1060. But now my cost per copy will go up. Plus the end of life for this machine is 2024 they are telling me. So if I finance the buyout I will have a machine on my hands that won't be supported nor get supplies for.

 

[Ynot_UK]

@willvp2408 First off, you won't be disappointed with the C4070 and it is a timely and natural upgrade from your C1060. Do tell us what configuration you're thinking of going with.

As far as your options go...

• Most importantly, as @jwheeler eludes to, you are in the driving seat, since your lease is coming to an end. So even though you may likely want to stay with KM because you like the workflow and have had good years with your C1060, definitely do still shop around and use the other 'big three's' offerings to bag the best deal.
• As well as the OEMs' direct route, you also have the dealer channel to explore. This is the path we took with our C4080 purchased last December.
• Make sure you secure the best CPC and lock it down for five years, with no minimum monthly charge and no penalties. A 'no more than 5% per year' increase may not sound much initially, but it is a lot come year four/five.
• Check the small print and don't get stung for things like "free Fiery support in year one, £800 per year thereafter"
• If you are in a position to purchase rather than lease, you will likely pay around the same in year one depreciation charge on your accounts as what the lease would be, but start banking savings in year two and massive annual savings by years four and five. Additionally, you will be in control of your options at the end of year five, as opposed to being bent over a barrel by the leasing company in conjunction with the supplier to 'upgrade' you, reduce your CPC, etc. to get another five years on a new machine.
• A dealer may be able to find you a low mileage C3070 that they are happy to put on contract. Whatever you do, resist any temptation to source a machine yourself, as it will be a poisoned chalice (read this forum for examples thereof)

 

[willvp2408]

The machine and options are:
C4070
DF-713 Dual Scan Feeder
IC-419 Embedded FIery
VI-514
PF-707m 3 paper drawer
FS-532 AIO Finisher
SD510 Fold and Stitcher
PK-522 Punch kit
RU518 Relay Unit

I asked about a 3070 and got told that was not a option. They would not do that.
Which I don't see why if they did find one from another dealer.
The click charges would stay the same for a 5 year lease on the machine.

 

[jwheeler]

That's a nice setup. Make sure you get a license for impose/compose with your fiery if you don't have one already. Also, for a few hundred bucks more, you might consider adding the PI-502 to the FS-532. That's the 2 post insert trays (see photo). Not only are they great for slip sheets, or inserting pre-cut/pre-scored covers, but they allow you to use the finishing features offline. You can place a stack of printed sheets in the trays, and there are buttons on the unit that let you choose to staple, punch, or saddle stitch offline. A great feature for small shops. Just be aware that adding this will not allow you to use the RU-518 output tray. Not a huge issue since you don't have a long paper path anyways.

 

[Ynot_UK]

The machine and options are:
C4070
DF-713 Dual Scan Feeder
IC-419 Embedded FIery
VI-514
PF-707m 3 paper drawer
FS-532 AIO Finisher
SD510 Fold and Stitcher
PK-522 Punch kit
RU518 Relay Unit

Nice setup.
What is the VI-514 for? Maybe wrong, but I thought this video interface was only used if you opted for the IQ-501
Just being pedantic, the FS-532 and RU-518 are both the "m" variants for the C4070
Are you currently on Fiery? (If so probably best to stay with the workflow you know) We weren't, so went for the KM IC-609 external controller, which has proved to be intuitive and we like.

I asked about a 3070 and got told that was not a option. They would not do that.
Which I don't see why if they did find one from another dealer.
The click charges would stay the same for a 5 year lease on the machine.

The direct channel's purpose in life is selling the current range of machines, not refurbs of discontinued models.
The dealer channel can facilitate this, although I'm unsure if you'd get a refurb on a lease.
We buy all our inventory outright and in addition to the new C4080 also got a refurb Pro951 last year from our dealer to handle our B/W volumes, also on a competitive fixed 5 year CPC.

 

[Puch]

I was thinking about keeping my c1060. But now my cost per copy will go up. Plus the end of life for this machine is 2024 they are telling me. So if I finance the buyout I will have a machine on my hands that won't be supported nor get supplies for.

I consider 2024 as 'far away' in the current economic situation. I'm sure there will be a C5080 in 2023 with 'earth shattering new features', and a dealer will be happy to upgrade you from the C1060 to the then-new-model. If you don't have problems with the 1060, why upgrade?

 

[Ynot_UK]

...they allow you to use the finishing features offline. You can place a stack of printed sheets in the trays, and there are buttons on the unit that let you choose to staple, punch, or saddle stitch offline...

View attachment 290709

That's answered what always seemed a mystery to me, as whilst you expect to see them on B/W machines to PI colour pages, I never understood why you occasionally see a PI-502 on a colour machine.

 

[jwheeler]

I consider 2024 as 'far away' in the current economic situation. I'm sure there will be a C5080 in 2023 with 'earth shattering new features', and a dealer will be happy to upgrade you from the C1060 to the then-new-model. If you don't have problems with the 1060, why upgrade?

Agreed! If the machine is still working, the amount you save on the lease payment far outweighs the increase you pay in CPC's. Make the payments to yourself for the next 3 years!

 

[pippip]

It depends on the op's circumstances, when we were upgrading our DC242 to V80 the difference in click charge and the volume we did actually ment we'd be saving money each year by upgrading.

 

[willvp2408]

The dealer has a letter showing end of life for my c1060 as 2024. If I finance for 3 years to own the machine once I own it will not be supported anymore. No supplies no support. Plus once I refi my click charges go up, imagine that. So its pretty much pushing me to a new machine. But it is also making me look at Ricoh, Cannon, Xerox all over again. But If I jump ship to another brand its learning a new machine and its language. I wish it was like buying a car. You can travel to other dealerships and get a price and make the best deal. I can't go outside my area so I have to trust my dealer is giving me a good deal. Because you can always trust someone trying to sell you something right? : ( not

 

[Ynot_UK]

The dealer has a letter showing end of life for my c1060 as 2024.

I wouldn't be too worried about this aspect alone, there's lots of commonalities between this and the C2060 which won't be EOL'd until at least 2026 as it was launched two years after the C1060.
Notwithstanding, you do need a CPC agreement in place covering everything.

I wish it was like buying a car. You can travel to other dealerships and get a price and make the best deal. I can't go outside my area so I have to trust my dealer is giving me a good deal.

Where abouts are you?
In the UK, any independent dealer will bite your hand off to do business and I've never come across any territorial issues.

 

[bcr]

That's a nice setup. Make sure you get a license for impose/compose with your fiery if you don't have one already. Also, for a few hundred bucks more, you might consider adding the PI-502 to the FS-532. That's the 2 post insert trays (see photo). Not only are they great for slip sheets, or inserting pre-cut/pre-scored covers, but they allow you to use the finishing features offline. You can place a stack of printed sheets in the trays, and there are buttons on the unit that let you choose to staple, punch, or saddle stitch offline. A great feature for small shops. Just be aware that adding this will not allow you to use the RU-518 output tray. Not a huge issue since you don't have a long paper path anyways.

View attachment 290709

Yeah I had the post inserter on my bizhub c754e's, and it's a nice feature indeed.

I now have Ricoh c5310's, also with post inserters, but haven't figured out how to insert and punch stuff in offline mode, as it were; I have to print at least one page and then punch everything from the post inserter as covers or inserts to that one page.

 

[bcr]

When our leases were up we extended them by a year and after that was done the buyout price was very low.

So maybe contact the leasing company and ask what they want to buy out, or extend the current lease by a year. If the machine is still working well, then you have no rush to replace it and the pressure is on the salesmen, not you to get a deal.

You might even find that when you come to upgrade you can keep the 1060 as a secondary machine; if corporate won't service it a dealer might, by all accounts it's a very reliable machine.

If you're getting an embedded fiery though be sure it can do everything you need.. we had embedded fierys on our C754e's and they would do quite a lot. But when we upgraded to Ricoh C-5310's the embedded fierys appeared to lack a lot of the functions of our existing ones like tab insertion etc and we went with the external one. It would have been a nasty shock to find existing features were no longer available on a much newer fiery.

Maybe also consider KM's rip, I was quite impressed by their Flux software when I demoed it.

 

[Puch]

Here we have 'alternative dealers' who (upon signing a contract) support you just like the original manufacturer, for a fraction of the price. Actually they're former Konica tech guys, who fed up with the corporate bullshit and all the crap they have to shove down the customer's throat.

Of course you have to buy out the machine first, but that's a small burden compared with the consequences of signing a new 5 year lease contract. Imagine there might be a 4th, 5th or n-th virus version with a full lockdown, again. I would be very cautious to make assumptions regarding my business' performance in the current economic situation.

 

[pippip]

Interesting, so they provide a click charge for toner/service/parts etc?

 

[Puch]

Interesting, so they provide a click charge for toner/service/parts etc?

Yes, exactly. They get parts and consumables from 'alternative' channels, I guess from ebay, AliExpress etc. On top of that, there are parts wich can be 'renewed' at the site, eg. the corona wire. They showed me how to make a 'new one' using the original housing, only changing the wire inside.

 

[pippip]

Would there be any issue with warranty on the actual machine?