Leaving Rampage - Heidelberg or Kodak?

[ddunlow]

I am in the process of replacing my Rampage workflow. I have been a Rampage user since the late 90's, but I see it is time for a change. I have spent hours upon hours looking at workflows from Heidelberg and Kodak. Has anyone here gone through this research process? What made you choose Heidelberg over Kodak?

The two workflows seem very similar. I know these two companies were partners in the past. Are the workflows close enough that I should go with the company offering the best price and incentives?

 

[Fatboysmart]

Surprised to see you didn't get any answers yet. When we bought our CTP system 2 years ago we compared the Kodak and Heidelberg systems. I did tests on both of them, and clearly Heidelberg won on almost every aspect. The Imager itself (Suprasetter) is much more modern and maintenance friendly then the Magnus, which seemed a bit outdated. But the real deal clincher was Heidelberg Signa. In my opinion nothing even comes close to it's power and ease of use. Needles to say we went with Heidelberg and never looked back... we love it.

 

[rbailleu]

I dont have any info on the others, but i vote for heidelberg too. I have been real happy with ours.

 

[zoran]

My vote goes to Heidelberg too, due to well thought out solution.
Kodak has broken pieces gathered from who knows where, pieced together that sometimes don't work very well.
Heidelberg wrote from scratch entire workflow and all pieces join together seamless.

I am following Kodak GUA forum in parallel and I see a lot of problems with Kodak Prinergy workflow, I would be scared to go Kodak route knowing that and knowing how well Heidelberg Printready is.

This is not to say that Heidelberg is perfect, they do have their glitches but nothing compared to Kodak.

I used be on old Scitex, than Creo/Scitex, than Creo, than Kodak/Creo Brisque workflow for many years.
I wish we've had something like Heidelberg back in those days.

 

[Mark]

How does the cost between Kodak Prinergy and Heidleberg compare? We are on Brisque 5.1 and need to make a decision soon.

 

[Fatboysmart]

Can't tell you that exactly, but i do remember 2 years ago the Kodak system was around 15% more expensive, and the image setter didn't even have in-line punching which the Heidelberg did have.

 

[marktonk]

Hi ddunlow,

A couple of points you may want to take into consideration. Prinect is a vast workflow covering the whole printshop from MIS, to Prepress, Press and Postpress. And we can go out the internet to the clients. One of the main features of Prinect is that the system was developed with JDF inside from scratch, it was not added to an older workflow. This defines the basis of one master JDF for the entire workflow. Our MIS uses the same master JDF as Prepress Manager, Pressroom Manager and Postpress Manager. One master JDF file encompassing the complete workflow including what was done from each department. You do not have to search for a JDF from prepress then one from press, post press and yet another from MIS and try to combine the information into one JDF. Prinect automatically does this for you by having the master JDF.

You did not mention if you are a Heidelberg press user but if you are, our integration with Prinect is more advanced than anything out there. As an example, on a XL 105 press, we digitally set up upto 24 points on the press, not just ink zone presetting but also side guides, sheet width and length, etc.

One of the other areas we excel is ink key presetting. We can have multiple printing characteristic curves optimized for paper and ink combinations that will allow to get to color faster on press because the presetting is more accurate. Alls the press operator does is open up the job all presets that are possible are enacted including automatic selection of the proper printing characteristic curves. Once a job is done printing, the set up and color OKed values are saved back into the master JDF. If you reprint the job, the operator just recalls the job number and it will set the press back to the color OK status along with all of the other presets.

With Pressroom manager, you not only setup the ink presets but automatically track the press run for make ready, good sheets, press speeds, wash up, etc. This can be exported back to the MIS to do a cost versus estimate analysis. Real time tracking. The same info can be used to dynamically update our scheduling program.

For a little more insight, here is a link to an article Andrew Tribute wrote at Drupa:

Print CEO - Printing Industry News Blog - Get Prinected - Real Integration


Here is one more on Prinect:

Millennium Press Expands Prinect Workflow - Printing Industry News from WhatTheyThink


Hope this helps.

Regards,

Mark

 

[ddunlow]

Thanks for everyone's input. Heidelberg does make a great product. I visited the showroom in GA last month. It was an impressive site. Everyone there was extremely well versed in all things Heidelberg.

We recently installed a Heidelberg SM52. We couldn't be happier with the press! I am feeding CIP3 information to it from Rampage. No problems there. We have a couple of Man Roland presses, 40" and a 29". I've been sending them CIP3 info since 2000. I personally would love to see the two Rolands replaced by one XL 105.

Over the past years, I have fallen into a Rampage routine. By doing so, I have not kept up on the new offerings in workflows. After the new press was installed, I was enlighten to what else is out there.

I am still researching. Thanks again!

ddunlow

 

[andy1966]

Workflow

Workflow

There is one major factor that people have forgotten. With both PDF workflows do you have the data integrity that rampage has.Room vs norm?z

 

[zoran]

I think that is moot point and question of the past.
What is Data Integrity really in ROOM workflow?

We've had Brisque ROOM workflow and files get rastered and broken down to CT of 300 or 600 dpi and LW to 2400 dpi.

Just because something is rastered, doesn't mean you have data integrity.
Those raster files still have to go through screening, which means your data integrity is compromised, right?

Could there be corruption in file system on file?
Of course it could, so your data integrity is compromised again.

Modern RIP's have been through good share of pounding and data integrity is just as good as with ROOM workflow.
If you render PDF 10 times with same rip, it will render the same, every time so what really is data integrity?

 

[marktonk]

Hi Zoran,

Thanks for the post, I think having the Adobe PDF Print Engine also adds to the integrity, no pdf to postscript translation anymore. Speaking of ROOM, the word ROOM was coined from our Delta Technology, the original Rip Once Output Many workflow. This had a great ride, I think we started it in 1994 and we just launched the last version of software for it. This is how confident we are in the PDF workflow.

Best regards,

Mark