License Infringement Letter

[Mark]

My mom did that for us when we were kids years ago, so Starbucks owes her some money!

 

[gordo]

I recall years ago some company trying to enforce a "business practices" patent having claimed ownership of combining stochastic + waterless printing.

That's a good example of how a vendor can help. I was involved in helping a customer who was threatened because they used Creo Staccato (FM) on their waterless press. If I remember correctly the patent referred to the use of "random dot halftone screening." Well, the dots in Staccato, like the majority of vendor FM screening is technically not random. It is pseudo-random hence the patent did not apply. Poof! patent problem solved.

best, gordo

 

[Munsell]

Wow, I can't believe this! Patent trolls are the worst.

I think this argument would be hard to hold up in court, but I'm no lawyer. I would also venture to say, if this were a real legal issue, it would be up to the vendors (workflow screening and platesetter vendors) to actually pay licensing fees, not individual companies or print shops. Completely ridiculous.

 

[FIJIX]

Patent trolls are ridiculous.

Here is an interesting article on the scan-to-email patent troll. It lays out their business model and shady tactics.
Meet the nice-guy lawyers who want $1,000 per worker for using scanners | Ars Technica

 

[mstev]

This really is crazy! Anybody else out there get one of these? It looks like they just go around buying up patents and then go after small to medium sized businesses to try and squeeze a settlement out of them. How the heck could someone even get the original patent for the process of design/proof/plate?

 

[kseldridge1]

Well it did not die. We received a call from the law office who sent the letter. Our attorney said we can not ignore. Seems a group of guys bought the defunct company who had these patents but never enforced them. Now they are trying to recoup there cost by enforcing. This affects every modern printshop and workflow in the world. Unless there is some loophole. Unfortunately it will cost attorneys fees to find out.

 

[mschroeder]

Anything new on this? Seems kind of crazy.

 

[Bowner]

I believe the lack of patent enforcement leads to a loss of patent rights. This period varies by country, but after 5-8 years, if patent goes unenforced against "infringers", the "patentee" cannot bring suit for infringement. Also, there is patent terms, that I recall is also varies from 14 to 21 years.

 

[westmarq]

It's a scam. They try to intimidate you into sending them money by threatening legal action. The problem is they don't have a legal leg to stand on. They buy patents and then try to extort money from people using the technology. The problem is they won't be successful in suing the end user. If there is a patent infringement, that's something they have to go after the manufacturer for not the end user.

Don't send money to people that are emailing you from Nigeria and don't send any to these scammers either. Tell 'em to take a hike!

 

[mstev]

The problem is is that it's not a scam. If they own the patent, they can take you to court. These trolls will try to file in a jurisdiction that is inconvenient for you, forcing you to offer to settle. The patent is pretty broad and the letter from the law firm is even broader. They know that it will cost you money to fight them and hope that their victims would just as soon give them some money to go away instead of paying attorney fees. I'll bet most of the companies they target are small to medium sized that don't want to spend a lot on attorneys. It would be nice if some of the trade groups could get together and fight this. This will be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[westmarq]

Yes it is a scam. If you fight them they will either drop it or you will prevail in court. The end user is not liable for patent infringement. They're trying to extort money from people fraudulently, which is the definition of scam.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Yes it is a scam. If you fight them they will either drop it or you will prevail in court. The end user is not liable for patent infringement. They're trying to extort money from people fraudulently, which is the definition of scam.

End users are liable with respect to patents. That is the point of having patent protection. People can not make, sell or use an invention without a license.

It might not be what some people want but that is the agreement backed by the law. As long as the patent is valid.

 

[Alith7]

My husband had a similar thing only as a "personal debt" a few years ago. it was a supposedly "legitimate" law-firm that had "bought" bad debt and was trying to collect. My husband and settled and paid the debt years ago, but had lost the paperwork. Instead of US trying to come up with the proof, we called them out on it. they scheduled a court date for settlement, and because of the laws in our area, they HAD to file in the county we lived in to collect the debt. We sent formal notorized letters to both the law firm and filed with the court case requesting that hard proof of the debt purchase, purchase price, and date be submitted to the court before we would pay. we should up for court, and magically, that morning they had faxed in papers closing the case.

so, long story short, you, as the defender don't have to prove your innocence until THEY prove your guilt. Don't fill out that letter, make THEM prove that you are guilty. And it should all disappear, because they can't. They scare you into thinking you have to prove you're innocent, and a lot of people forget that in our court system you are innocent until PROVEN guilty. the initial burden of proof is not yours to present, it is theirs.

 

[[email protected]]

This is all an elaborate scam to extort small business. HP, Ricoh, and Xerox are all currently engaged in litigation against a scanner patent troll:

Attack of the scanner patents | Ars Technica

Notify your workflow hardware vendors and make sure they are aware of their "infringing" patents.

 

[gordo]

In case you missed it...the PIA is checking into the issue:

PIA's Makin Sends Member Notice on Patent Trolling - WhatTheyThink

Gordo

 

[JoeatData]

This pdf I am reading does seem to be a little bit fishy......doesn't seem to show as being "official", looks quite unprofessional. Why would this be a crappy scan on a pdf?

Wonder if the the license was infringed upon while making that pdf?

 

[Alith7]

Not sure if this is related or not....

Federal Court Invalidates Patent Troll Case Against EFI and Others - WhatTheyThink

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Donnelley owns Banta now. Maybe Donnelley has hired people to go after potential patent earnings.

I would not put it past RR Donnelley. The Banta Corporation was started in my hometown, was purchased by Donnelley in a sweet deal for then CEO Steph Streeter. Donnelley has dismantled the Banta legacy and the hopes of a community with it! They ruined Banta, why shouldn't they ruin other businesses as well. There's a problem when companies get too large.

 

[michaelejahn]

it is BACK !

it is BACK !

Donnelley owns Banta now. Maybe Donnelley has hired people to go after potential patent earnings.

Nope;

ROCHESTER, NY/ELMWOOD PARK, NJ/KENNESAW, GA–May 22, 2014–Kodak, Agfa and Heidelberg have joined together to file petitions with the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office (PTO) in an effort to combat patent licensing demands made on their customers by CTP Innovations. The petitions, through an established process with the PTO known as Inter Partes Review, seek to invalidate U.S. patents 6,738,155 and 6,611,349, which were acquired by CTP Innovations and are being asserted against the customers in patent infringement lawsuits brought by CTP Innovations, a non-practicing entity.

This is part of a continuing initiative by this coalition of supplier companies to demonstrate their commitment to their customers.

In a joint statement, the companies said: "We fully support the proper use of the patent system to support legitimate intellectual property rights. However, we feel strongly that the infringement claims brought by CTP Innovations are without merit and the licensing demands are unsubstantiated. We feel it is important to take this action to support our customers from these frivolous claims."

The coalition continues to monitor CTP Innovations' litigation and licensing activities and will update their respective customers with any further developments regarding the PTO review.

For more background on patent infringement cases that have been filed against printers, read "Patent Trolls Still Targeting Printers" from the March issue of Printing Impressions magazine.

Patent trolls like CTP Innovations target commerciual printers. : Page 1 of 1 : Printing Impressions

 

[Alith7]

thank you for the update, this has been a very interesting thread.