Looking for a new prepress workflow...any suggestions (good and bad)?

[CalPress]

PrintPlanet folks, you expertise is needed! I just got the green light from ownership to look into a new prepress workflow (RIP, imposition software, proofing and possibly imagesetter/plate processor). Do any of you have any suggestions what direction to look into (or away from)? We've got two 40" 6 color presses, plus a Quickmaster DI and a couple of smaller Hamada's. Currently running RAMpage with Preps with a Luxel VL-9600 CTP platesetter. I've seen the on-line demo for Fuji's XMF workflow and it looks pretty solid. What else should I be looking into?

 

[minder]

We are also looking at the different Workflows out there. We have narrowed it down to Fuji XMF (which i like), Kodak Prinergy and ESKO.
Looking for something that will be able to handle Litho, Packaging, Large and Grand Format.
We also want to be able to expand the workflow to include MIS and Online ordering.
Fuji is nicely priced and yearly service contract is very good priced also. Kodak's Prinergy is very expensive as well as their yearly service contracts ESKo system the same.

 

[macdevin]

I will chime in with my 2 cents.. I think all of the RIP's have strong points and week points. You first need to prioritize your needs and wants.
If price the biggest factor then it's XMF all the way. Your not going to find a product that's great at all of them. Granted great for one shop could be just ok for another shop.

Large and Grand Format I do not see as a segment that either of these RIP's focus on.. They don't require much of anything extra special, 2nd their usually not the RIP that Rips them for their output..

Fuji XMF is great for Commercial work. It's not that robust yet and still lacks the flexibility that the others have.
Prinergy is a great product for everything expect for Packaging... It leaps and bounds better the XMF in it's flexibility.
Esko is the Strongest in packaging then all the rest. It lacks in commercial when compared to Prinergy and it offers great flexibility if you have the time to configure it.

We are an ESKO shop and I've personally have looked at all of them.. I've stayed with esko over the years as were more of a hybrid of all of them. Sometimes I wish we would have moved to Prinergy over ESKO.

 

[rich apollo]

Have to agree with macdevin, none of these are going to have much, if anything, to do with your large and grand format.

There are also Screen, Agfa, and Xitron to consider.

 

[Lester]

We currently are looking as well. Just had a demo of Xitron's Sierra yesterday. Need to still evaluate a few others.
Features we liked: integrated dynamic impo, Adobe PDF Print Engine, and ability to view dot after plate curves are applied
Features we use in Rampage that don't seem to be available:
1. ability to export the imposed die line to pdf 2. The "extra inks" option in Rampage allows us to create bump plates with pullback and spot varns,
3. trap editor and object level trapping 4. the ability to specify different trap widths within a run (e.g.: we like to trap metallic spots at half width of normal)

We're going to take a look at xmf as well (although I'm under the impression Sierra and xmf are quite similar.) Sill need to gather info for Kodak Prinergy and Screen's Trueflow/Equios.

Is the ESKO solution geared toward packaging?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

It is not always about the RIP, it is about automating a manual workflow, reducing or removing touch points. That is why these tools have become Workflow software that do so much more than just a RIP. This is not an Ad for Prinergy, it is just what I know best… In the case of Prinergy, it is also about normalising incoming files into a known/trusted/consistent PDF master. It can also be about performing automated colour management or in the case of Prinergy ColorFlow - colour relationship management on the incoming files, so that digital machine A matches digital machine B, or that digital machine A and B match offset machine A, or that offset machine B, C, and D match offset machine A etc. Prinergy has an entire “ecosystem” around it, which is Unified Workflow, where many different modular elements are seamlessly integrated.

Lester: Esko is mostly about packaging. Yes, Esko is also in commercial printing workflow/RIP - just like Kodak is also in packaging workflow/RIP but mostly in commercial (they are both major players in their respective areas and also have smaller market share in other areas that have not traditionally used their gear).


Stephen Marsh

 

[macdevin]

We currently are looking as well. Just had a demo of Xitron's Sierra yesterday. Need to still evaluate a few others.
Features we liked: integrated dynamic impo, Adobe PDF Print Engine, and ability to view dot after plate curves are applied
Features we use in Rampage that don't seem to be available:
1. ability to export the imposed die line to pdf 2. The "extra inks" option in Rampage allows us to create bump plates with pullback and spot varns,
3. trap editor and object level trapping 4. the ability to specify different trap widths within a run (e.g.: we like to trap metallic spots at half width of normal)

We're going to take a look at xmf as well (although I'm under the impression Sierra and xmf are quite similar.) Sill need to gather info for Kodak Prinergy and Screen's Trueflow/Equios.

Is the ESKO solution geared toward packaging?

Lester.. All those items that you want you can be done with Esko Automation engine..

Stephen Marsh.. You are exactly right that this is becoming more about automating. This is one feature that both Esko and Kodak blow out the others.

 

[EZPower]

Upgrade the Platesetter. Keep the Rampage and Preps. No learning curve. Money well spent.

 

[Fatboysmart]

Dont forget to look at Heidelberg Prinect and Signa! One of the best in my opinion. Great image setters as well.

 

[dabob]

Just a stupid question . .. is your current system not doing what you need it to do? Round here if it ain't broke we don't fix it. We are running Signa and love it.

 

[Lester]

Macdevin
Good to know - looks like I'll need to add Esko to my list.
So it can handle packaging issues such as die lines and spot varns but also automate impositions
for saddle-stitch and perfect bound books with the ability to apply creep?
What about handling dutch-cuts and ganging odd sizes on one press sheet?
And it's core is Adobe PDF Print Engine?

Thanks!

 

[aprinterslife]

We just upgraded to Esko's Automation Engine 14 from 12 and absolutely love it! But having said that just make sure whatever you purchase utilizes a true Adobe print engine.

 

[rich apollo]

4. the ability to specify different trap widths within a run (e.g.: we like to trap metallic spots at half width of normal)

If you run the metallic last down, you shouldn't have to do this.

dabob, brought up another player - Heidelberg.

 

[Lester]

We just upgraded to Esko's Automation Engine 14 from 12 and absolutely love it! But having said that just make sure whatever you purchase utilizes a true Adobe print engine.

aprinterslife…
What kind of work are you guys printing? I agree that it needs to have Adobe core.

 

[aprinterslife]

We are a mix and match printer doing everything from very large format off-set (64" KBA's) to Xerox Igen4's and Agfa Titan digital flat beds.

 

[Lester]

Wow - that is large. We're 23x29 sheetfed commercial with a handful of digital printers. We run a little bit of everything.
Saddle-stich and perfect bound material: calendars, annual reports, catalogs, etc; specialty die cutting, foil stamping, embossing along with
a little bit of packaging.
I need a workflow that can easily output imposed dieline files, create spot varns, but also automate standard imposition templates
with creep for our saddle-stitch work. Think Esko is a contender?

 

[macdevin]

Wow - that is large. We're 23x29 sheetfed commercial with a handful of digital printers. We run a little bit of everything.
Saddle-stich and perfect bound material: calendars, annual reports, catalogs, etc; specialty die cutting, foil stamping, embossing along with
a little bit of packaging.
I need a workflow that can easily output imposed dieline files, create spot varns, but also automate standard imposition templates
with creep for our saddle-stitch work. Think Esko is a contender?

Lester,

Esko can do all that with out even thinking twice.. Esko aka AE is an automating machining.
AE does not have a great built in Impo stoftware.. I still think it's best to create your JDF imposition templates using 3rd party Software.
But once you create your JDF templates you can automate what JDF's is picked up.

 

[CalPress]

Just a stupid question . .. is your current system not doing what you need it to do? Round here if it ain't broke we don't fix it. We are running Signa and love it.

I agree with your philosophy. But the reality is that it soon will be "broken". I'd love to stick with RAMpage, but there are a host of issues. RAMpage is a dead end, as the product has been discontinued. We've skipped the last few upgrades (management decision-mainly because it wasn't broken!) including the final one, and the hardware it's running on is almost 10 years old. And we're having more frequent problems with transparency in customer supplied PDFs. Our Mac workstations are also older so we can't upgrade to latest version of Creative Suite [CC (2014)] without upgrading the OS or purchasing new computers. If we update the OS we won't be able to use the RAMpage client any longer, along with a long list of other applications and utilities we use every day. As it is I have to use an old machine running OS9 just to run Preps!

It's not the preferred course of action, but it is inevitable.

 

[dabob]

I agree with your philosophy. But the reality is that it soon will be "broken". I'd love to stick with RAMpage, but there are a host of issues. RAMpage is a dead end, as the product has been discontinued. We've skipped the last few upgrades (management decision-mainly because it wasn't broken!) including the final one, and the hardware it's running on is almost 10 years old. And we're having more frequent problems with transparency in customer supplied PDFs. Our Mac workstations are also older so we can't upgrade to latest version of Creative Suite [CC (2014)] without upgrading the OS or purchasing new computers. If we update the OS we won't be able to use the RAMpage client any longer, along with a long list of other applications and utilities we use every day. As it is I have to use an old machine running OS9 just to run Preps!

It's not the preferred course of action, but it is inevitable.

Well . . . we have purchased the software "support" package which gets us the latest upgrades automatically so on the software side we stay good to go . . . yes our prosetter is getting a little long in the tooth and we might be buying a used one just for parts but Heidelberg laid off our favorite tech and we have his home # so the hardware side has been pretty covered . . . and yes we need to upgrade to mavericks but if you look in craigs list you can get a post 2008 mac pro for under a grand or you can look around for a patch that will allow your older mac to run mavericks . .. i did some research on it since my mac is 2007 and won't upgrade but my Imac will run it and I only live about 7 minutes from work so if I need to I can run home and deal with it.

But . .. your right eventually it is inevitable . . .