Looking for a new production Color

[exify]

We currently have a KM 6500, and are in the market for a second one. We also have a CLC 3900 (which is basically useless).

We were looking at the Canon imagePRESS 6000 but the space requirements are too big. We would need 2-3 feet behind, 12 feet long, 6 feet deep. Not practical for us.

We would like a machine around the size of the 6500/01 (we have the base, paper decks, staple finisher). We would get another 6500 but we've been having alot of downtime lately so we were looking elsewhere. If 6501 seems like the best solution, that will be the choice.

Any ideas for a machine that is around 10ft long, 3-4ft deep, and on wheels? The fact that we cannot move the imagepress and needed the space behind it is what killed the deal.

 

[Craig]

I doubt you will find a "production" press with wheels, or one that's movable after the feeders/finishers are installed.
My first thought was the ImagePress 6000, I think even the Ricoh C600 might be too big. I understand what it is to have confined space, were in the same boat. My 8000AP takes up 22' x 12' of floor space, even if it and the feeders/finisher were on wheels it weighs almost 3,000 lbs so it's not going far.

Maybe someone else will chime in, but for now I would think the 6500 is your only option that's close to production level.

 

[exify]

well maybe i should rephrase. it doesnt have to be on wheels, but we would prefer if we could put it against a wall (i assume it needs wheels in case the service has to work on the back panels.) the imagepress needs that space which is what killed us. so yea...

 

[exify]

Anyone????

 

[Craig]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you may just not have the space for a production press. Anything other than the KM, will just not fit your requirements. That's why I say, in my opinion the KM isn't on the same level as the other production presses in the same spm range. It's a souped up copier, that meets a entry level need, at a very low cost.

I would REALLY get into a hard discussion with Canon and or Xerox to see if they have a solution. I have heard story's about what they will do to get a machine in a location. I actually had Gordon Flesch offer to upgrade my electric service to 3 phase to support an ImagePress 7000VP. (That was $12,000) I didn't do it though, I was pi$$ed a Canon.

I can tell you with my DC8000AP they really do need that 3 feet behind, it has an environmental unit with several filters that need to be changed, the whole thing comes off the back of the print engine. Plus the power supply unit comes off if it needs service as well, or if they need to get to the stuff between it and the print engine.

 

[StrikTenn913]

I have to agree with Craig in that those space requirements are there for a reason. It's mainly a servicing issue. The techs need ample room to do any necessary work behind the engine. Having proper room for air circulation around the engine is also a reason.

I also agree with Craig in that these manufacturers want to sell you equipment, and often will try to work out situations like this with you.

The 6500 is your best bet if size is your main concern. To my knowledge it's the smallest in this category. I'm not sure what their dimensions are, but you may want to look at Xerox 700 or the new Ricoh C900.

 

[X33]

take a look at the Xerox 700 Digital Color Press. It meets your space requirements and will meet your production expectations.

Xerox 700 Digital Press for Digital Color Printing Applications

 

[Bobby]

will you please share your experience with Konica, why you want to look for another printer?

 

[exify]

will you please share your experience with Konica, why you want to look for another printer?

I guess I should have clarified. We have a lease with Canon on 2 machines that suck. They're willing to eat the lease cost if we get a C6000 or something like that. Nothing against Konica.

 

[Craig]

I guess I should have clarified. We have a lease with Canon on 2 machines that suck. They're willing to eat the lease cost if we get a C6000 or something like that. Nothing against Konica.

Same thing they wanted me to do with our CLC4000, they will eat the lease on their crap if I get a bigger, more expensive pile of crap. If your support from Canon was anything like mine I'd run to another company. The dealer was great... Canon hosed both of us.

 

[StrikTenn913]

More expensive piece of crap? That's a bit harsh, don't you think. I hope there's a bit of sarcasm there, Craig!

 

[Craig]

Sarcasm yes, but if you ever had the displeasure of owning a CLC4000 you would understand.

 

[exify]

Same thing they wanted me to do with our CLC4000, they will eat the lease on their crap if I get a bigger, more expensive pile of crap. If your support from Canon was anything like mine I'd run to another company. The dealer was great... Canon hosed both of us.

Canon service was decent, i wouldn't write home about it though. We just want this CLC3900 outta here.

 

[StrikTenn913]

Well, Craig, I never had the pleasure of owning one... but I have had the pleasure of working with one as a student in a digital print lab. Let's just say I understand your frustration with the performance of that particular product line and quite glad it's been discontinued on Canon's side.

 

[ColorGuy]

I know that Canon would love to get those old CLC's out of the field and have been extremely aggressive with offering money to place an imagepress. I have seen them pay off leases and even go so far as to cover part of your renovation costs to get it in.

Keep in mind, that the imagepress is not the old CLC. The quality of what I have seen is as good as the indigo and paper handling is great. I understand they also offer a user replaceable parts program which should reduce downtime.

If you like the Canon, and they will get you out of your CLC, you should try to get them to pay for some of your renvovations to fit the machine.

 

[sweatyclimber]

Just to clarify and I'm sure you all are aware.... Typically, no one is "eating the lease" except you. There are many way's to work that... sorry (trade secrets- us reps have to keep some) but essentially that lease gets wrapped up into your machine. The new company can capitolize it and add "cost" to the rep, they can roll a buyout into a lease... lots of things... In the end you still are paying at least for most of it.

 

[Craig]

Sweaty, Just like buying a car!

 

[sweatyclimber]

Actually worse... A car has a value to the dealer in the form of moving to there used lot to sell.... Typically the copier has ZERO value even if the dealer works on that brand/model. ....Knowing that, I find it ironic that so many reps still list a "trade-in" on there proposal... It's like saying:

"Hi, we just met and are trying to form a long term relationship, I will start our relationship out by playing with numbers to hose you instead of simply selling the value of what I offer." -It is funny that some out there think lieing is a good way to start a relationship... and of course that happens on the buyer side just as often.

 

[exify]

Just to clarify and I'm sure you all are aware.... Typically, no one is "eating the lease" except you. There are many way's to work that... sorry (trade secrets- us reps have to keep some) but essentially that lease gets wrapped up into your machine. The new company can capitolize it and add "cost" to the rep, they can roll a buyout into a lease... lots of things... In the end you still are paying at least for most of it.

that's what they did to get the CLC in here, but not this time.

 

[sweatyclimber]

that's what they did to get the CLC in here, but not this time.

So you went to term? If not somehow the other lease's financial obligation had to be met.

FYI for everyone who reads this... If you can go to term, your equipment's cost over time will be dramaticly less. And the equipment you can afford will be bigger/ better then you could have rolling a lease early.

One GREAT method is to ask your rep about a "copy block lease". To my knowlage, GE (who is basicly out of the busines) and US Bank who's investing more into the business are the only two who did them. The way the lease works is for X number of years OR X number of copies whichever comes first. That way you buy based on the life of the machine that you want to use it for. If your volumes go up and you kill it early, then your lease ends early. Your base payment is based upon the same principals of a standard lease with copies included.