Looking for cip3 software

[Zerge]

Hello everyone.
I'm looking for a cip3 software, that works with composite pdf's.
..
What I have:
Harleqin rip without cip3 plugin and PressPerCent for generate CIP3's. But PreressPerCent doesn't work with spot colors in composite pdf's.
Without spot colors there are no problems — one PDF/X-3:2002 file fo all, but with spot I need to generate two files — for RIP and cip3 and for on-screen control. It is not very elegant way.
..
What I want:
Do not depend on RIP and use standalone application.
Use only one file for RIP, cip3 and visual on-screen control.
...or advice for a correct solution from Heidelberg, Esko, etc

 

[Martin Mueller]

Hi Zerge,

with the Harlequin RIP and PressPerCent you are still really well equipped.
You are right, PressPerCent only uses the internal Quartz PDF engine of the MAC and cannot process spot colors.

However, PressPerCent can also work with Harlequin 1bit TIFF separations, combine them (see attached screenshot) and output them correctly via the CIP3 PPF.plugin.

 

[Zerge]

Hi, Martin and thanks for your advice.

output them correctly via the CIP3 PPF.plugin.

Do you mean Harlequin RIP plugin? I dont have it and use PressPerCent.
Now I have to generate a separated .PS-file and send it to RIP and to PPC. And generate PDF to visual control. Its a lot of megabytes, time and... looks very archaic.

 

[workflowmaster]

Have you considered Heidelberg's Meta Dimension? It's kinda all in one RIP, uses Adobe PDF engine, outputs TIFF-B (one-bit TIFF @ resolutions up to 5080 dpi), PDF, composite TIFF, JPG and CIP3 data. Connects also directly to colour proofers and windows printer drivers, and, of course, Heidelberg's platesetters. It has an internal previewer ("on-screen proof" at 300 dpi) as well. Accepts PDF, PS, JPEG, TIFF as input. Last version is 2017, works on Windows 10 Pro and Server 2019.

 

[deaner]

You also might check out these guys...

PressProfiler CIP3 – Offset Printing Press CIP3 Ink Key Presetting and Statistics Solution

www.pressprofiler.com

Creates CIP data directly from the TIFF output of your Harlequin (no need for the CIP plugin) and converts to Heidelberg's proprietary format for press. Not as cheap a solution as PressPerCent, but a heck of a lot cheaper than Harlequin's own solution or Heidelberg Prinect. Plus, one install of this system can drive multiple presses with no extra licensing fees.

 

[Martin Mueller]

Hi, Martin and thanks for your advice.

Do you mean Harlequin RIP plugin? I dont have it and use PressPerCent.
Now I have to generate a separated .PS-file and send it to RIP and to PPC. And generate PDF to visual control. Its a lot of megabytes, time and... looks very archaic.

Hi Zerge,

you wrote that you got a Harlequin RIP. All you need is the TIFF-plugin of the Harlequin RIP for producing 1bit TIFF separated files (CMYK & Spot). Then you load these seperations into PressPerCent using the setup I sent you. PPP will merge these separations together again and do the CIP3 generation.

 

[Martin Mueller]

Hi, Martin and thanks for your advice.

Do you mean Harlequin RIP plugin? I dont have it and use PressPerCent.
Now I have to generate a separated .PS-file and send it to RIP and to PPC. And generate PDF to visual control. Its a lot of megabytes, time and... looks very archaic.

Zerge,

as input file for the Harlequin RIP it is better to use composite PDF or PS-files and not seperations. The important part is that you sent TIFF seperations to PPP which can be merged. Then all spot colors are processed correctly for the CIP3 generation.

 

[Zerge]

Hello, colleagues!
Thanks for your advices very much!

Heidelberg's Meta Dimension

Yes, now I'm negotiating the price. Very interesting, very easy and very... ""Heidelbergeous" software in the best sense of this "word".

check out these guys...

Talking about the price with them toо.
I think, the price is higher than PPC because of external PDF engine (Martin spoken about it upper).

as input file for the Harlequin RIP it is better to use composite PDF or PS-files and not seperations.

Hmm. Why not separations? What problems might arise with separated PS-files?

The important part is that you sent TIFF seperations to PPP which can be merged.

My fault, I didn't explain all the nuances to you — RIP and PPC is installed on two different computers — Win10+RIP and Mac+PPC. The load on the local network will be too high during transmission 1-bit TIFFs.
I'll try though, thank you!

 

[Martin Mueller]

Hello, colleagues!
Thanks for your advices very much!

Yes, now I'm negotiating the price. Very interesting, very easy and very... ""Heidelbergeous" software in the best sense of this "word".

Talking about the price with them toо.
I think, the price is higher than PPC because of external PDF engine (Martin spoken about it upper).


Hmm. Why not separations? What problems might arise with separated PS-files?

My fault, I didn't explain all the nuances to you — RIP and PPC is installed on two different computers — Win10+RIP and Mac+PPC. The load on the local network will be too high during transmission 1-bit TIFFs.
I'll try though, thank you!

Zerge,
1. Separated PS-files which are not produced by the HQ-RIP like your printing plates are , could cause problems in the correctness of the CIP3-files produced by PPP.

2. PPP is only working on a Mac, I know it. You don't have have to use 1bit Tiffs in full plate resolution of 2400dpi or so, a resolution of 100dpi or 300dpi is by far enough for CIP3.

 

[Joe]

Normal resolution for CIP3 images are very low. For example there are 4 options in Prinergy for outputting CIP3 files. We use the low resolution which is 12 dpi.

• Low resolution is approximately 12.5 ppi, which gives good preview images.
• Medium resolution is approximately 25 ppi, which gives a sharper preview image with more detail.
• High resolution is approximately 50 ppi, which gives the sharpest available preview image with the most detail.
• Very High resolution is up to 100 ppi, which gives the sharpest available preview image with the most detail, depending on the plate output resolution.

 

[Zerge]

Hello, Martin.
Thanks for your answers!

or so, a resolution of 100dpi or 300dpi is by far enough for CIP3.

As it was in 1999 — we scanned plates with 53,8 (or something like that) dpi to produce CIP3, I remember that with nostalgia.
..
Hello, Joe!

We use the low resolution which is 12 dpi.

Thanks, I'll try that.

 

[Zerge]

You also might check out these guys...

Cost of PressProfiler is GBP £5,500.00 and GBP £6,500.00.
Very big cost to company, but. Guys is really good.

still really well equipped

Hello, Martin.
Your advices and recommendations was very helpful.
As the guys from PrepressUK, I also owe you a bottle of 40-years-old Scotch.
..
Problem solved, thanks, colleagues.

 

[Martin Mueller]

Zerge,

it's been an honor and a pleasure

 

[Jacek]

..
What I have:
Harleqin rip without cip3 plugin and PressPerCent for generate CIP3's. But PreressPerCent doesn't work with spot colors in composite pdf's.
Without spot colors there are no problems — one PDF/X-3:2002 file fo all, but with spot I need to generate two files — for RIP and cip3 and for on-screen control. It is not very elegant way.
...

I don't know how it was 2 years ago, but now PPC works with spot colors, overprints and with 1-bit TIFF.

What is the difference in work between PPC and PressProfiler CIP3? PPC sends the ink coverage for the defined zones to Heidelberg. The rest is taken care of by the CP2000 with machine characteristic curves. But on older CP2000's, where there is no choose of characteristic curves, only one default per color, PP CIP3 gives a more workaround? Can I overwrite and create other curves?

 

[Martin Mueller]

I don't know how it was 2 years ago, but now PPC works with spot colors, overprints and with 1-bit TIFF.

What is the difference in work between PPC and PressProfiler CIP3? PPC sends the ink coverage for the defined zones to Heidelberg. The rest is taken care of by the CP2000 with machine characteristic curves. But on older CP2000's, where there is no choose of characteristic curves, only one default per color, PP CIP3 gives a more workaround? Can I overwrite and create other curves?

PPC and PressProfiler are both based on the Excourse PressPerCent. PressProfiler offers just a little more ease of use and runs on a Windows PC. In the meantime, both also get along well with PDF jobs with spot colors. The current PPC v3.64 has the option of Ghostscript integration for PDF processing.

 

[Jacek]

I asked about the differences, because I have CP2000 in version 38, where it is not possible to create characteristic curves. There are only defaults 4 curves for each CMYK color and 3 spot. I can only edit them. So I have only one curve for different papers and inks. I'm wondering how I can pre-set the right ink keys in PPC.

 

[Martin Mueller]

Hi Jacek,
in PressPerCent there are several setup parameters to adjust the ink zone information to your specific press. The basic settings of PPC are often "too weak" and only open the ink keys very insufficiently. In the attached screenshots you can see the menu windows for "Zones Curves", "Ink Feed" and "Page Correction"to improve ink key settings for Cyan. Here, for example, I can enter a "steeper" curve for the Cyan print unit. PPC also offers a accurate test form printing procedure that is described in the PPC User Manual (Appendix B, Pag. 28 - 30).