Looking for Production System

[DeniseR]

I am a graphic designer, I mainly layout invitations but I do posters, postcards, business cards etc. - whatever comes my way. I currently out source all my printing. I am looking to lease a production system and purchase a cutter so I can do my printing in house. I need it to print envelopes including small envelopes: 3.625inches x 5.125inches is this possible on any machine?

What is the best way to go here? I am looking at about 10K clicks per month but I hope this can increase.

What is a good, easy to use cutter?

 

[Craig]

Keep outsourcing! You'll grow broke trying to buy everything you need to be productive, believe me I have spent nearly $1 million in equipment in the last 10 years. Buy out a shop that is going out of business if you really have your heart set on it.

 

[MailGuru]

DeniseR. Listen to Craig!!!!!!!!

I know, from the outside looking in, it "appears" as though there is money to be made here. The "real" truth is that the money in this business is in sales and service, not in production. In what you do, you probably make "dollars" in profit per piece. In what we do, we have to settle for "cents" and "half-cents". Believe me, it takes a lot of "half-cents" to keep the doors open. Other than losing money and gaining headaches, here are some valid reasons for continuing to outsource.
(1) Liability Responsibility - If your provider screws it up, they have to spend money to make it right. If YOU screw it up, you have to spend your own money to make it right.
(2) Certainty of Profit - If you know what your provider is going to charge you, you add whatever you want and pass it on to the end user. When running your own shop, Murphy's Law kicks in (whatever can go wrong......) and you could end up running a job at a loss just to keep your client happy.

 

[DeniseR]

Right now I am not making dollars per peice because my clientele is not willing to spend alot on invitations and competition in my area is hard. I get a lot of calls for prices but people are going elsewhere I can't compete because outsourceing and shipping are killing me.

I am looking for a production system that can do cardstock and envelopes - I don't need a finisher. I was recomended a Ricoh C651EX the lease price is very high though. I got another quote for a Xerox 550 but i don't think it does envelopes. Is there a happy medium?

 

[arossetti]

I am a graphic designer, I mainly layout invitations but I do posters, postcards, business cards etc. - whatever comes my way. I currently out source all my printing. I am looking to lease a production system and purchase a cutter so I can do my printing in house. I need it to print envelopes including small envelopes: 3.625inches x 5.125inches is this possible on any machine?

What is the best way to go here? I am looking at about 10K clicks per month but I hope this can increase.

What is a good, easy to use cutter?

If you do decide that you need to run everything in house I would suggest you get blank invite stocks so you do not have to worry about a cutting and scoring. Look at a supplier like Paper Tags, Folders, Door Hangers, Raffle Tickets, Stock Paper, Perforated Paper, Security Paper and more | Blanks/USA or something similar. I would purchase a Oki Data printer with an envelope feeder and output device like the Xante Illumina. With this you can print your invitations and envelopes on one printer. You could also look into a small desktop laser printer like the Oki Data just without the feeding and output options if you plan to do sort runs of a couple hundred.

Realistically, if you bought the invitations from blanksusa and went to Office Depot and bought a $400 laser printer you could start to do more in house. You may have to outsource portions of your work still but for a $500 investment you might be able to capture 50-60% of your work. If you found that this setup was successful and increasing your margins you could then start adding to your operation and think about expanding your in-house capabilities.

 

[DeniseR]

If you do decide that you need to run everything in house I would suggest you get blank invite stocks so you do not have to worry about a cutting and scoring. Look at a supplier like Paper Tags, Folders, Door Hangers, Raffle Tickets, Stock Paper, Perforated Paper, Security Paper and more | Blanks/USA or something similar. I would purchase a Oki Data printer with an envelope feeder and output device like the Xante Illumina. With this you can print your invitations and envelopes on one printer. You could also look into a small desktop laser printer like the Oki Data just without the feeding and output options if you plan to do sort runs of a couple hundred.

Realistically, if you bought the invitations from blanksusa and went to Office Depot and bought a $400 laser printer you could start to do more in house. You may have to outsource portions of your work still but for a $500 investment you might be able to capture 50-60% of your work. If you found that this setup was successful and increasing your margins you could then start adding to your operation and think about expanding your in-house capabilities.

Thank you. Do you have any experience with the OKI data printer with envelope feeder. The quality of the print has to be excellent. I can't get this quality from a $400 laser printer.

 

[arossetti]

Thank you. Do you have any experience with the OKI data printer with envelope feeder. The quality of the print has to be excellent. I can't get this quality from a $400 laser printer.

I have the original Xante Production Press. Since quality is so subjective I would get samples sent to you. If you send a sales person from any of the re-sellers your files they will have no problem printing out a couple sheets and mailing them to you for your review. Is it as good as prints off of out Xerox 800, no - but we run our letterhead and envelopes on it with no quality issues. I know their is a member on this forum named Keith who pretty much runs all of his work on the Xante. He might be a better reference.

 

[Joe Duffy]

Thank you. Do you have any experience with the OKI data printer with envelope feeder. The quality of the print has to be excellent. I can't get this quality from a $400 laser printer.

I have one and I will tell you the one off color is special.
What is not special is the cost per print and the life of the consumables. I print 1000 6x9 envelopes with black type for a return address and the cost of the envelopes plus the cost to run them on the Xante saves me about $4 - before I take into account my time.
I have printed everything up to 320gsm DTC and it does well but a 4 pack of toner cartridges are around $900.00.

 

[DeniseR]

Aprox. how many prints can you get out of a toner cartridge?

 

[Joe Duffy]

Prints: Depends on stock and coverage but I guess a 8 1/2 x 11 single side on 67# Vellum Bristol with 45% coverage at around .09 for toner and drum at cost.

 

[DeniseR]

9 cents is alot but maybe just for envelopes it is worth while - how does it do envelopes? Can it do small sizes?

 

[MailGuru]

You guys are dreamin! The Xante Illumina final price will be around $18,000 (not the $400 - $500 - etc.).
I'm telling you - by the time the smoke clears, you'll be paying more for your product than you are outsourcing it for........but......hey.......who am I to quash a dream?

 

[Joe Duffy]

You guys are dreamin! The Xante Illumina final price will be around $18,000 (not the $400 - $500 - etc.).
I'm telling you - by the time the smoke clears, you'll be paying more for your product than you are outsourcing it for........but......hey.......who am I to quash a dream?

I never said it was $500.00, I only answered about the quality and cost per print.

 

[Joe Duffy]

9 cents is alot but maybe just for envelopes it is worth while - how does it do envelopes? Can it do small sizes?

I have done A4 envelopes with no issues on feed.
It does smash them a little as all tone machines will do.
If you are looking for a used one, UnlimitedBT had 3 or 4 for sale. He is a member of this forum.

 

[Keith]

I know their is a member on this forum named Keith who pretty much runs all of his work on the Xante. He might be a better reference.

Used to run all of my work on the Xante. It became so unreliable and I had to spend so much time tinkering with to get it to work that I was afraid to go out and sell more work... which I couldn't do anyway because I was too busy fiddeling with my Xante! I still do use it but for envelopes only. It does much better as a support machine to my Xerox 252.

When I do run envelopes it only costs me about 2 cents each but when I run a full bleed flyer it can cost over 40 cents each!!!! I would recommend an Oki with a service contract. Last time I considered one, it was around 9 or 10 cents a click. Envelopes will cost more but everythging else will cost less. As Craig said, keep outsourcing so you can stay focused on design (what you do best), sales and customer service. Keep in mind, it's not money that pays for these machines, it's volume and sometimes not running them enough is just as bad as running them too hard.

Feel free to contact me at 410two-eight-seven7417.

Keith

 

[DeniseR]

Thanks to all. This gives me alot to think about. any other comments and ideas are welcome.

 

[Craig]

Denise - From the sound of it you are wanting to print wedding and social invitations, is that correct?

 

[MailGuru]

Ok, if you're heart is set on it, you might want to take a look at the table-top Rena Mach 5. It uses the new MEMJET technology, is ink jet based (instead of toner based), will do full bleed on 8 1/2 x 11 or smaller, was specifically designed for full color envelopes, and is faster than any office laser (8 1/2 x 11 at 60 ppm). I don't have one, nor do I know anyone else who is using one, (because the technology is so new) but, on paper, it looks like a great machine. I believe they are sold by Modular Mailing Systems, and, I think the price is somewhere around $10k, but, the ink is supposed to be relatively inexpensive.

 

[DeniseR]

Denise - From the sound of it you are wanting to print wedding and social invitations, is that correct?

yes mainly, but I would like to offer other things as well like posters, postcards, etc.

 

[Joe Duffy]

Ok, if you're heart is set on it, you might want to take a look at the table-top Rena Mach 5. It uses the new MEMJET technology, is ink jet based (instead of toner based), will do full bleed on 8 1/2 x 11 or smaller, was specifically designed for full color envelopes, and is faster than any office laser (8 1/2 x 11 at 60 ppm). I don't have one, nor do I know anyone else who is using one, (because the technology is so new) but, on paper, it looks like a great machine. I believe they are sold by Modular Mailing Systems, and, I think the price is somewhere around $10k, but, the ink is supposed to be relatively inexpensive.

Fast and inexpensive but the print will run if it gets wet, and unless you live in a desert, they will get wet. The only inkjet I know that will not run when wet is the RISO.