Looking to start a print business & need advice

[new2print]

Hey All! I am new to the print world as well this site. I’ve read through a lot of posts and look forward to talking with you all in the future. But I’m going to start by asking for some help/advice.

I am looking to start a print business. At first, it will basically act as an in-house print department for some small businesses I own but we will eventually open to the public. I’m looking for ideas on what equipment I need, what models you recommend, etc. I figured maybe this might be a good spot to post since I need everything.

To start, we are going to be looking to be heavy into printing marketing material: postcards, business cards, tri-fold brochures, booklets, door knockers, yard signs, banners, etc. Eventually we will also want to get into some of the ancillary services like printing on promotional materials, clothes, etc.

We want good quality equipment that is going to give us professional results (after we’ve had a chance to practice of course). We prefer equipment that is automated as much as possible. We also want to get into nice finishes like foils, lamination, diecuts, etc.

So, I know it’s a pretty open question, but what do I need? What are you recommending and do any of you have something I will need that you’re looking to sell? We don’t have an endless budget but definitely willing to pay for the right product. I would prefer to skip entry level equipment that we would quickly out grow and would rather move right into something that can last us for years while allowing growth.

In terms of space, I have a vacant stand along building that I’m going to use for now. It’s one level and about 1000 sq ft. It’s gutted so I can add any power needed, change the layout to accommodate most equipment, etc. Just need some help from the experts on here.

I appreciate any help you can give. Thanks!!

 

[AP90]

You have some lofty goals for that little space if you are wanting to do digital, wide format, promotional printing and finishing like die cutting, lamination, etc. 1000 sq ft. is a good starting point but you'll be running low on space just with a digital press and the storage needed to feed that press and workstations.

So we need to know your budget first. Also remember that automation cost big $$$. The more you have, the more your going to spend. Good quality equipment is subjective. Some places can get by with printing on large office copy machines. Others need indigo 10k's. What is your goal as far as number of items printed monthly? Are you willing to buy used equipment? If so you can save some big money but will have to be savvy on fixing problems from time to time.

So we need to know:
Expected run lengths per month
Budget
Must have items in order (press and cutter are 1 and 2 no matter what your doing).
Used or New equipment.

Ill also throw this out there, if your wanting to do "marketing materials" then your most likely going to be better off outsourcing them. It'll save you time, money and headaches.

 

[new2print]

You have some lofty goals for that little space if you are wanting to do digital, wide format, promotional printing and finishing like die cutting, lamination, etc. 1000 sq ft. is a good starting point but you'll be running low on space just with a digital press and the storage needed to feed that press and workstations.

So we need to know your budget first. Also remember that automation cost big $$$. The more you have, the more your going to spend. Good quality equipment is subjective. Some places can get by with printing on large office copy machines. Others need indigo 10k's. What is your goal as far as number of items printed monthly? Are you willing to buy used equipment? If so you can save some big money but will have to be savvy on fixing problems from time to time.

So we need to know:
Expected run lengths per month
Budget
Must have items in order (press and cutter are 1 and 2 no matter what your doing).
Used or New equipment.

Ill also throw this out there, if your wanting to do "marketing materials" then your most likely going to be better off outsourcing them. It'll save you time, money and headaches.

Thank you so much for the reply! I agree on the space not being a long term solution but I’m definitely open to expanding to a bigger space at some point.

One of the businesses I own is a real estate company. it’s tough to know exactly what we would send out but based off of our projected marketing plan for next year times the number of agents we have and their client lists, I think we will probably be producing 20-30k pieces of some type of marketing material each month for just that company. My guess is maybe +\- 50k/month when adding in the other companies.

I don’t have a specific budget. I obviously don’t want to overpay for something that would not make sense for my expected production levels but I would rather pay more to have something that can automate processes and save time/cost on labor.

For example, I was watching “Just a Printer” on YouTube and he had a rack (sorry I have not learned the correct terms yet) that had all of the pages of the booklet he was making separated on it. The machines then pulled each page, combined them, stapled them, folded them and spit out a finished product. I think of the alternative option of someone physically sorting, stapling, folding and just see that as a waste of time and money. I’d just assume spend the money and buy a machine that can do it.

I’ll say I don’t know what I don’t know I don’t know yet so it’s tough for me to answer my “must-haves”. I have things that I think are must-haves but you might say there are ways around it. With the majority of our print material going to be postcards, newsletters, booklets, door knockers, tri-folds and other similar items, I think I can get a lot of that done with one printer. I do think I would need a large format printer for banners, stickers and some other items I would do. That said, here is what I think I need though:

A really good printer for the majority of the workload. Full bleed, sharp, bright colors, professional looking results.

A large format printer for banners, stickers, vinyl, etc

A guillotine and die cutter

A machine that can add lamination, foil, etc

A machine to fold and assemble books and booklets.


I have a construction company filled with smart guys, an in-house IT person, an outside IT company that helps us with larger issues and access to some local repair companies so I would definitely be open to used equipment if it makes sense to go that route but I’m also open to buying new if that’s makes more sense. Currently I have four large copy machines and they produce office quality materials. I would rather upgrade to better equipment and achieve better results.

I hope that helped answer your questions. Thank you again for your help!!

 

[kslight]

IMHO automation is big money and space commitment, not always a time saver, and unless you are specifically targeting that application in volume it doesn’t pay off. For example, printer can collate…I can two knife cut then hand feed 100 books into a booklet maker (and face trim) in 5 minutes. Or you can pay $$$$$ for feeders, collating towers, etc and that’s a lot of setup, potential static issues…if you’re doing thousands of one specific book yes this makes sense but if you’re doing 50-100 personalized books at a time…it’s faster to do it by hand than setup the machine.

Most printers can be configured with an inline booklet maker or any number of inline finishers…imho these are only useful for specific applications…certain size and thickness books. Most of the books I do are odd sizes, and bleed, so inline finishers don’t help me.

Embellishments like laminating, foiling, and die cutting - imho are sometimes better left off to specialty vendors, unless you are doing just a lot. We get like…2 foil jobs a year, maybe one die cut job every other month…. We do laminate almost all of our wide format work so we do most of our own laminating. Again, space, money, and also skillset - I wouldn’t buy all the equipment for this unless you have a large demand.

Wide format printers - I would use a vendor for unless you have the demand. Solvent printers are fickle beasts and you don’t want them to sit, and they make a lot of fumes that I’m not crazy about in a small space.


If it was me, I’d say the minimum pieces are computers / software / staff, a good printer, guillotine, booklet maker, and a slitter / cutter / creaser. I do everything you suggest and more using a Ricoh 7210x, old challenge guillotine, duplo dbm150, and a duplo 646. The 646 is amazing to have for cutting business cards / etc, and also creasing / perfing so it’s a must have tool for us for most anything that needs to fold.



We have other things like an inkjet, folders, inserters, solvent printer, plotter, laminators, etc…but even the minimum you’re looking at a very serious investment to get off the ground.

And I’ll add..I wouldn’t assume that anyone with no experience is going to get sellable results from that equipment.

 

[TJPrinter]

I mean no offense to the construction crew but I wouldn’t let anyone that wasn’t trained in the printing industry come anywhere near my press or finishing equipment. The IT person could be a great asset but if you don’t have experience in the industry you’ll want all your equipment to be under a service contract.

The equipment that you’re looking for can add up very quickly. I would second what kslight said, Ricoh for the press and some nice finishing equipment. Duplo has some very solid machines.

 

[azehnali]

you can easily spend $300k in equipment
more importantly who will run all of them

 

[keith1]

First thing I'd suggest doing is to hire an experienced print manager to oversee setup, equipment & operation.

 

[new2print]

IMHO automation is big money and space commitment, not always a time saver, and unless you are specifically targeting that application in volume it doesn’t pay off. For example, printer can collate…I can two knife cut then hand feed 100 books into a booklet maker (and face trim) in 5 minutes. Or you can pay $$$$$ for feeders, collating towers, etc and that’s a lot of setup, potential static issues…if you’re doing thousands of one specific book yes this makes sense but if you’re doing 50-100 personalized books at a time…it’s faster to do it by hand than setup the machine.

Most printers can be configured with an inline booklet maker or any number of inline finishers…imho these are only useful for specific applications…certain size and thickness books. Most of the books I do are odd sizes, and bleed, so inline finishers don’t help me.

Embellishments like laminating, foiling, and die cutting - imho are sometimes better left off to specialty vendors, unless you are doing just a lot. We get like…2 foil jobs a year, maybe one die cut job every other month…. We do laminate almost all of our wide format work so we do most of our own laminating. Again, space, money, and also skillset - I wouldn’t buy all the equipment for this unless you have a large demand.

Wide format printers - I would use a vendor for unless you have the demand. Solvent printers are fickle beasts and you don’t want them to sit, and they make a lot of fumes that I’m not crazy about in a small space.


If it was me, I’d say the minimum pieces are computers / software / staff, a good printer, guillotine, booklet maker, and a slitter / cutter / creaser. I do everything you suggest and more using a Ricoh 7210x, old challenge guillotine, duplo dbm150, and a duplo 646. The 646 is amazing to have for cutting business cards / etc, and also creasing / perfing so it’s a must have tool for us for most anything that needs to fold.



We have other things like an inkjet, folders, inserters, solvent printer, plotter, laminators, etc…but even the minimum you’re looking at a very serious investment to get off the ground.

And I’ll add..I wouldn’t assume that anyone with no experience is going to get sellable results from that equipment.

Thank you for some great feedback! I assumed automation would make the most sense but that’s why I wanted to come on here. You probably saved me a lot of money.

I’ll check out the Ricoh printers. I read most people on here pushing Canon and Epson. Is Ricoh good?

We are going to do a fair amount of booklet printing. With a 12 page booklet that is roughly 9x12. With foil and die cut on the covers, we were quoted nearly $90k/year by a local print shop for the order we wanted to place. Add to that all of the other printed material and we are talking a pretty large marketing expense (my rough estimate was north of $350k). That’s why I figured it would make sense to start looking into my own equipment. I do know that there is still a cost for paper, ink, etc even when printing myself but I’m thinking it will be a good long term investment. I will definitely utilize spot and foil but it is something I could add on down the road if you think it makes more sense that way.

IMHO automation is big money and space commitment, not always a time saver, and unless you are specifically targeting that application in volume it doesn’t pay off. For example, printer can collate…I can two knife cut then hand feed 100 books into a booklet maker (and face trim) in 5 minutes. Or you can pay $$$$$ for feeders, collating towers, etc and that’s a lot of setup, potential static issues…if you’re doing thousands of one specific book yes this makes sense but if you’re doing 50-100 personalized books at a time…it’s faster to do it by hand than setup the machine.

Most printers can be configured with an inline booklet maker or any number of inline finishers…imho these are only useful for specific applications…certain size and thickness books. Most of the books I do are odd sizes, and bleed, so inline finishers don’t help me.

Embellishments like laminating, foiling, and die cutting - imho are sometimes better left off to specialty vendors, unless you are doing just a lot. We get like…2 foil jobs a year, maybe one die cut job every other month…. We do laminate almost all of our wide format work so we do most of our own laminating. Again, space, money, and also skillset - I wouldn’t buy all the equipment for this unless you have a large demand.

Wide format printers - I would use a vendor for unless you have the demand. Solvent printers are fickle beasts and you don’t want them to sit, and they make a lot of fumes that I’m not crazy about in a small space.


If it was me, I’d say the minimum pieces are computers / software / staff, a good printer, guillotine, booklet maker, and a slitter / cutter / creaser. I do everything you suggest and more using a Ricoh 7210x, old challenge guillotine, duplo dbm150, and a duplo 646. The 646 is amazing to have for cutting business cards / etc, and also creasing / perfing so it’s a must have tool for us for most anything that needs to fold.



We have other things like an inkjet, folders, inserters, solvent printer, plotter, laminators, etc…but even the minimum you’re looking at a very serious investment to get off the ground.

And I’ll add..I wouldn’t assume that anyone with no experience is going to get sellable results from that equipment.

Thank you for the response! This is a great example of not knowing what I don’t know. I assumed automation just made everything easier and figured I would be willing to skip a step and jump right to it if it did make things easier, but it doesn’t sound like it would so I can hold off.

The same thing with the foil, spot UV, etc. I know we will definitely use those features in a majority of our products as we currently are with pieces we are having made through other companies but maybe it’s better to start smaller, learn those machines and then grow into something more down the road.

I guess we can hold off on the large format machine as well but I really thought that was an important piece. Even if it’s just being used as practice while we learn it’s intricacies, I thought it was a must-have in my opinion.

I have heard lots of comments about the smell though and certainly don’t want to have any issues there. I am building this building out so I can do whatever needs to be done for ventilation. It is being built to PassiveHouse standards which includes an ERV system. That system is constantly pulling the air from inside the building and expelling it outside while bringing new fresh air in. I think that would help with that problem, although I am now concerned if it would be creating an issue for neighbors instead.

Thank you for the specific product recommendations. I am going to check them out. I know a lot of people on here say Canon and Epson for printers. Is Ricoh a good quality machine?

I definitely understand that starting from scratch without much experience is going to end up with a lot of mistakes and wasted product, but they will only be producing material for in-house orders for several months if not long so they will have a lot more room to make mistakes than if it was an actual public print shop. I do think it will be a steep learning curve and don’t think it’s something we are going to be experts in right away but everyone has to start somewhere. I’m sure most people here have been through the learning curve as well. I read somewhere once that it takes about 10,000 hours of doing something before you are really good at it. That would have us up to that level in five years, but with each run between now and then we would be learning, making mistakes sure, but hopefully getting better each day.

 

[new2print]

I mean no offense to the construction crew but I wouldn’t let anyone that wasn’t trained in the printing industry come anywhere near my press or finishing equipment. The IT person could be a great asset but if you don’t have experience in the industry you’ll want all your equipment to be under a service contract.

The equipment that you’re looking for can add up very quickly. I would second what kslight said, Ricoh for the press and some nice finishing equipment. Duplo has some very solid machines.

Thank you for the feedback and no offense taken…haha. I can definitely see why the term construction company would make someone nervous to work on a machine. It’s a little more diverse than you’re probably thinking but I do definitely agree that I don’t want someone tinkering with a machine and breaking it. Some of the guys already work on equipment repair and my thought was they could learn to work on these as well but definitely having outside help in the beginning.

Thank you also for seconding the Ricoh. I was not familiar with the brand so I’m checking it out but it’s good to see two people recommend the same equipment.

 

[new2print]

you can easily spend $300k in equipment
more importantly who will run all of them

The $300k figure is probably realistic based off of some of the machine costs I have seen. I know there are other costs associated with printing (paper, ink, electricity, etc) but I was quoted $90k to just produce the booklets we need per year adding everything else to it I am guessing we would fall between $300-600k every year. So, while the machines are expensive, and we definitely would not be experts in the beginning, I think it would make sense in my specific situation to invest in the equipment and training of new people to operate them. Even if we aren’t able to make it an “open-to-the-public”/“for-profit” shop for 3-5 years, the cost savings for my in-house print should make it worth a shot.

 

[new2print]

First thing I'd suggest doing is to hire an experienced print manager to oversee setup, equipment & operation.

This is definitely something I think would help. I know salary is regional but do you have any idea on how much I might expect to need to offer for a salary to get an experienced print manager? We are in the Boston area. I know finding good help is tough right now so I don’t even know if people are looking or if it’s a situation I would need to try to recruit someone from another company (I’d prefer not to do that as I’m not looking to hurt another business just to get mine off the ground).

 

[azehnali]

The $300k figure is probably realistic based off of some of the machine costs I have seen. I know there are other costs associated with printing (paper, ink, electricity, etc) but I was quoted $90k to just produce the booklets we need per year adding everything else to it I am guessing we would fall between $300-600k every year. So, while the machines are expensive, and we definitely would not be experts in the beginning, I think it would make sense in my specific situation to invest in the equipment and training of new people to operate them. Even if we aren’t able to make it an “open-to-the-public”/“for-profit” shop for 3-5 years, the cost savings for my in-house print should make it worth a shot.

I would find a good employee first
I sell machines and setup print operation and my biggest issue is training people on how to run the machines ,even after 5 years they still call on basic operational issues
When you go with a bigger company as far as equipment you will not be getting that so an employee with machine and graphics knowledge is key specially these days with the JA out there and all around laziness breading through social media

 

[DYP]

You better find out if you can get paper first. Will any distributors take you on as a new customer.

 

[new2print]

I would find a good employee first
I sell machines and setup print operation and my biggest issue is training people on how to run the machines ,even after 5 years they still call on basic operational issues
When you go with a bigger company as far as equipment you will not be getting that so an employee with machine and graphics knowledge is key specially these days with the JA out there and all around laziness breading through social media

Sorry, what does JA mean? I definitely understand the challenges of finding employees though. Thank you for the advice!

 

[new2print]

You better find out if you can get paper first. Will any distributors take you on as a new customer.

I knew we would need a paper supplier but never thought it would be a challenge to get one. Is that an issue right now? Is it supply chain or just not taken on new clients? Where’s Michael Scott and Dundee Mifflin when you need them…haha.

 

[TJPrinter]

This is definitely something I think would help. I know salary is regional but do you have any idea on how much I might expect to need to offer for a salary to get an experienced print manager? We are in the Boston area. I know finding good help is tough right now so I don’t even know if people are looking or if it’s a situation I would need to try to recruit someone from another company (I’d prefer not to do that as I’m not looking to hurt another business just to get mine off the ground).

I believe that there are several active members on this forum that either currently run an in-plant operation or have the experience. Those may be the best people to reach out to for any specifics on running an in-plant. Maybe a new post would help on this.

I’ve watched some of the videos that Just a Printer has posted and he makes some of the work he does on his machines look easy. He can only do this because of his extensive knowledge of printing and electronics. The vast majority of us opt for full service on the press. The rest of your equipment my depend on the experience of your print shop manager. Some may have the experience to keep things running and others may have always relied on service contracts.

As far as equipment ownership, some people like to keep and own a press until it’s ready for scrap. I prefer the lease option with full service and just update at the end of the lease. The finishing equipment is something I prefer to own because it has a much longer life span than a digital press.

You should be able to find some very useful information on past posts from this forum once you narrow down your equipment list to a few models. I’ve heard from several printers and dealers that orders are currently taking extended periods of time (months) to get equipment delivered.

I think 1,000 sq feet is okay to start but it won’t be enough room for your large format equipment too. Along with the large format equipment you’ll need some large flat surface areas to do finishing work like hemming, laminating and mounting.

I knew we would need a paper supplier but never thought it would be a challenge to get one. Is that an issue right now? Is it supply chain or just not taken on new clients? Where’s Michael Scott and Dundee Mifflin when you need them…haha.

A bit of everything. Be prepared to store more paper than you may have thought you needed because you have to buy when it's available not when you need it.

 

[DYP]

Is it supply chain or just not taken on new clients?

Both. But you better make sure you can find a distributor that will take you on first.

 

[new2print]

I believe that there are several active members on this forum that either currently run an in-plant operation or have the experience. Those may be the best people to reach out to for any specifics on running an in-plant. Maybe a new post would help on this.

I’ve watched some of the videos that Just a Printer has posted and he makes some of the work he does on his machines look easy. He can only do this because of his extensive knowledge of printing and electronics. The vast majority of us opt for full service on the press. The rest of your equipment my depend on the experience of your print shop manager. Some may have the experience to keep things running and others may have always relied on service contracts.

As far as equipment ownership, some people like to keep and own a press until it’s ready for scrap. I prefer the lease option with full service and just update at the end of the lease. The finishing equipment is something I prefer to own because it has a much longer life span than a digital press.

You should be able to find some very useful information on past posts from this forum once you narrow down your equipment list to a few models. I’ve heard from several printers and dealers that orders are currently taking extended periods of time (months) to get equipment delivered.

I think 1,000 sq feet is okay to start but it won’t be enough room for your large format equipment too. Along with the large format equipment you’ll need some large flat surface areas to do finishing work like hemming, laminating and mounting.

A bit of everything. Be prepared to store more paper than you may have thought you needed because you have to buy when it's available not when you need it.

That actually brings up a question I forgot to ask. Where the space we have isn’t huge, I was thinking about storing all supplies in a storage pod outside. It would be weather tight but not a conditioned space. Would this be okay to do or am I risking ruining the paper?

Both. But you better make sure you can find a distributor that will take you on first.

Ok. I will add that to my priority list. Thank you!

 

[kslight]

Thank you for some great feedback! I assumed automation would make the most sense but that’s why I wanted to come on here. You probably saved me a lot of money.

I’ll check out the Ricoh printers. I read most people on here pushing Canon and Epson. Is Ricoh good?

We are going to do a fair amount of booklet printing. With a 12 page booklet that is roughly 9x12. With foil and die cut on the covers, we were quoted nearly $90k/year by a local print shop for the order we wanted to place. Add to that all of the other printed material and we are talking a pretty large marketing expense (my rough estimate was north of $350k). That’s why I figured it would make sense to start looking into my own equipment. I do know that there is still a cost for paper, ink, etc even when printing myself but I’m thinking it will be a good long term investment. I will definitely utilize spot and foil but it is something I could add on down the road if you think it makes more sense that way.

Thank you for the response! This is a great example of not knowing what I don’t know. I assumed automation just made everything easier and figured I would be willing to skip a step and jump right to it if it did make things easier, but it doesn’t sound like it would so I can hold off.

The same thing with the foil, spot UV, etc. I know we will definitely use those features in a majority of our products as we currently are with pieces we are having made through other companies but maybe it’s better to start smaller, learn those machines and then grow into something more down the road.

I guess we can hold off on the large format machine as well but I really thought that was an important piece. Even if it’s just being used as practice while we learn it’s intricacies, I thought it was a must-have in my opinion.

I have heard lots of comments about the smell though and certainly don’t want to have any issues there. I am building this building out so I can do whatever needs to be done for ventilation. It is being built to PassiveHouse standards which includes an ERV system. That system is constantly pulling the air from inside the building and expelling it outside while bringing new fresh air in. I think that would help with that problem, although I am now concerned if it would be creating an issue for neighbors instead.

Thank you for the specific product recommendations. I am going to check them out. I know a lot of people on here say Canon and Epson for printers. Is Ricoh a good quality machine?

I definitely understand that starting from scratch without much experience is going to end up with a lot of mistakes and wasted product, but they will only be producing material for in-house orders for several months if not long so they will have a lot more room to make mistakes than if it was an actual public print shop. I do think it will be a steep learning curve and don’t think it’s something we are going to be experts in right away but everyone has to start somewhere. I’m sure most people here have been through the learning curve as well. I read somewhere once that it takes about 10,000 hours of doing something before you are really good at it. That would have us up to that level in five years, but with each run between now and then we would be learning, making mistakes sure, but hopefully getting better each day.

With a production level digital printer you will want a service contract, that’ll generally cover your maintenance and toner costs. But everything is money. You normally pay a cost per copy for this, some vendors also want a minimum monthly charge on top.

I don’t know that Epson offers production level equipment in this field…wide format yes but not a conventional printer that you’d do most of your work on. Major digital production players are Ricoh, Konica, Canon, and Xerox.

Like another suggested, a lot of people here are like me, running an in plant. I’ve been doing this over 15 years. It’s probably best to first find the key people that’ll be trusted to make the equipment / etc decisions, instead of buying whatever and then trying to staff it. Will save you a lot of money in the long run, towards making the most efficient purchases, researching local service companies, and negotiating the best prices. Printer sales people are often like used car salesmen…greasy and will say what you need to hear to try to make a sale, and will take advantage of you if you’re not an expert. I cut our monthly print expenses by $3000 because our former owner didn’t negotiate the contracts and bought worthless to us accessories, not to mention huge efficiencies gained by bringing the right tools in.

There’s also more than just pushing print and finishing a job…especially if you are doing work for other people, my experience is many do not send print ready files, and require manipulation to get good results.

In a later post you ask about using a storage pod - absolutely not a good idea for paper. Printers and paper prefer specific temperature and humidity levels to avoid problems.

 

[Mark]

That is a million dollar idea!... problem is it will cost you 5 million.