Make Ready Time
- Thread starter Sfdp2300
- Start date
Albert Noel
Well-known member
i can usually get up and running in about 15-20 mins. not impressive by any means but i like to take my time and make sure colours are matching the proofs very well and register is nice and tight.
About the same as above,
although we don't get the privlege of a densitometer so we don't have to fiddle as much , your eye can only pick up the colour variance to a certain point.
Nor do we actualy have a proper proof to go by... yes I know, what are they thinking.. the client sees a proof out of a small office everyday colour copier then sometimes wonders why the print doesn't match it.. I give up and I'm leaving this place finally..
But we run poly plates that that if you want a correct fit, you will be there for a long time,, usually we have to split the difference between plate stretch and paper stretch
If we were to swing off the spanners all day to get 100% correct fit, production manager and boss would soon be breathing down our necks.
But if you don't have cip3/4 files and auto inking that time may be extended ..
although we don't get the privlege of a densitometer so we don't have to fiddle as much , your eye can only pick up the colour variance to a certain point.
Nor do we actualy have a proper proof to go by... yes I know, what are they thinking.. the client sees a proof out of a small office everyday colour copier then sometimes wonders why the print doesn't match it.. I give up and I'm leaving this place finally..
But we run poly plates that that if you want a correct fit, you will be there for a long time,, usually we have to split the difference between plate stretch and paper stretch
If we were to swing off the spanners all day to get 100% correct fit, production manager and boss would soon be breathing down our necks.
But if you don't have cip3/4 files and auto inking that time may be extended ..
15 and 20 min M/R's are impressive. What kind of machines are you running?
We are running older 102F and 102Sp Hiedelbergs.
We are doing 40 min make readies on average for a 4 colour job that includes: copy check, plate hang, colour and register with no auto inking and manuel plate hanging. The plate hanging take atleast 10 min. alone.
Im just asking out of a curious since of nature about printing life outside of my shop. thanks for your replys
We are running older 102F and 102Sp Hiedelbergs.
We are doing 40 min make readies on average for a 4 colour job that includes: copy check, plate hang, colour and register with no auto inking and manuel plate hanging. The plate hanging take atleast 10 min. alone.
Im just asking out of a curious since of nature about printing life outside of my shop. thanks for your replys
Nor do we actualy have a proper proof to go by... yes I know, what are they thinking.. the client sees a proof out of a small office everyday colour copier then sometimes wonders why the print doesn't match it..
I feel your pain about the poor proofing systems some customers wan tus to match.
I feel your pain about the poor proofing systems some customers wan tus to match.
Albert Noel
Well-known member
i'm on a roland 300 5 colour. i dont have the luxury of preset ink keys or any kind of automated closed-loop ink control. however we do have remote ink and running register with plate cocking and semi-auto plate changes. i have to set ink keys manually and use a densitometer (lots of times, i just eyeball it, we have an outstanding well calibrated proofing system, so going by eye is sometimes easier)
if you include the very start of getting a docket from the job box, getting paper to press, unwrapping paper/piling , setting up the feeder and all the little things in between, we are closer to 30mins. but from start of plate hang to run, we are 15-20 mins..
do you have a feeder or "2nd pressman" working with you? if so, you need to both be on the same page and know your jobs well and have a good routine, thats the key to a quick makeready. (that and well maintained rollers/press) if you are alone, theres not much you can do especially if your press is less automated. i'm not too familiar with the 102F and 102Sp. what size are they?
edit: nevermind, 102's .i know them lol. 28x40. never ran one, but i know what they are. jeeze
if you include the very start of getting a docket from the job box, getting paper to press, unwrapping paper/piling , setting up the feeder and all the little things in between, we are closer to 30mins. but from start of plate hang to run, we are 15-20 mins..
do you have a feeder or "2nd pressman" working with you? if so, you need to both be on the same page and know your jobs well and have a good routine, thats the key to a quick makeready. (that and well maintained rollers/press) if you are alone, theres not much you can do especially if your press is less automated. i'm not too familiar with the 102F and 102Sp. what size are they?
edit: nevermind, 102's .i know them lol. 28x40. never ran one, but i know what they are. jeeze
Last edited:
SM52 with pre press interface is about 10 to 15 minutes if we are running the same house gloss text and the same sheet size. We run any where from 12 to 15 jobs in an 8 hour shift. That all goes out the door if we have to switch to uncoated or PMS or even 5 color work. A lot of our jobs are under 1000 sheets on press.
Albert Noel
Well-known member
jeeze, i wish we could get ours that short. but then again, most of our runs are much more than 1000 sheets. only our pm46 and qm46 can get that many out in a single shift.
also, it sounds like i'm the only one on here who is running a roland while the rest of you guys are on heidies
Ok put a timmer on things today, just too see how close to the 15 -20 min time frame I was..
The very first job of the day, from paper loaded onwards until inking up and make ready was complete and first sellable sheet was produced was 15 mins
the rest going from one coated job to another, came in at 8 - 12 mins.. hang plates/ register/ colour make ready.
going from coated to uncoated was 12 min make ready
I spose it helps to have auto inking / de - inking.. cip 3 profiles
now if we were running metal plates those times would be cut shorter, as most of it is taken up getting the poly plates too fit..
Any re print PMS colour jobs are now simple as the duct settings are saved ready for next time..
Our run length for both cmyk or PMS colours can be as little as 13 sheets. up too 30000 sheets but generaly most days no higher then 2500 run length
The very first job of the day, from paper loaded onwards until inking up and make ready was complete and first sellable sheet was produced was 15 mins
the rest going from one coated job to another, came in at 8 - 12 mins.. hang plates/ register/ colour make ready.
going from coated to uncoated was 12 min make ready
I spose it helps to have auto inking / de - inking.. cip 3 profiles
now if we were running metal plates those times would be cut shorter, as most of it is taken up getting the poly plates too fit..
Any re print PMS colour jobs are now simple as the duct settings are saved ready for next time..
Our run length for both cmyk or PMS colours can be as little as 13 sheets. up too 30000 sheets but generaly most days no higher then 2500 run length
Sounds like you have a good crew with you. I miss those days sometimes. We run 2 man crews on press, But sounds like we might have a small problem with team work . We do, do alot of size changes but I dont think that should be a major issue. Most of our runs are small 2500 or less so you can see my delema on M/R times. Not sure if I should post another thread in another catagory about coaching and trianing on the importance of team work...
You all have given me insight on how things are elsewhere.
Thank you all,
Rob
Internal_R&D_Analyst
Well-known member
On 3 Heidelberg 840 perfectors we used to get 2 jobs an hour on each press with average runs of 2000-3000 using the same stock with one operator and feeder helper. We finally implemented the technology to preset the ink keys and do full sheet scanning with CPC 24 and closed loop color. Today we can get close to 4 an hour or almost 30 in 8 hours.
If you can do presetting and closed loop color it makes all the difference in the world.
I remember at 2007 graph expo where Komori ran 21 jobs in 90 minutes on a 1/2 size press. While surely preplanned and calculated to prevent any wasted time it goes to show what automation, good scheduling, and being lucky that jobs have so much in common can produce in such a short time. Must be why 4over purchased another 6 at this years graph expo.
If you can do presetting and closed loop color it makes all the difference in the world.
I remember at 2007 graph expo where Komori ran 21 jobs in 90 minutes on a 1/2 size press. While surely preplanned and calculated to prevent any wasted time it goes to show what automation, good scheduling, and being lucky that jobs have so much in common can produce in such a short time. Must be why 4over purchased another 6 at this years graph expo.
Albert Noel
Well-known member
thats pretty impressive. cci and pecom were an option on our 300 when installed but weren't purchased. id be interested to see what kind of throughput we could achieve with those in place.
Rob, part of the problem i think, is turn over for feeder/helpers. for a starting position, the pay is lousy unless you are in a major metro, or most of them learn a little and then move to either dupe or take off all together because it's too hard for them to wrap thier heads around. i'm currently training a guy for feeder/helper. going over the same things as all the others though this time i've put even more emphasis on timing and time management not just the skill building. teamwork is very important and time is money. more jobs printed = more money for the company = job stability = possibilities for advancement and so on. teamwork also needs motivation. if the operator isnt on top of the feeder then things just wont ever be as efficient as they could be.
ive trained literally 10 feeder/helpers in the last 2 years because they either cant grasp the time management or teamwork aspect or they just arent motivated and are let go. i think training is very important.
perhaps you should make that thread after all!
Once again I thank everyone for their input.
The Funny thing is I have been trying to get my crews onboard with cutting our M/R times down for the last month and just the other day there was a plant wide meeting with the #1 man (CEO) who was trying to express the same thing. Specialy since our customers are asking for smaller orders and with quicker turn around times.
Albert, I dont only think but I know you are right on: Timing and time management major keys to success..
The Funny thing is I have been trying to get my crews onboard with cutting our M/R times down for the last month and just the other day there was a plant wide meeting with the #1 man (CEO) who was trying to express the same thing. Specialy since our customers are asking for smaller orders and with quicker turn around times.
Albert, I dont only think but I know you are right on: Timing and time management major keys to success..
Albert Noel
Well-known member
multitasking is also very important in my opinion.
i try to make sure my feeder/helper is doing as much is as reasonably possibly at the same time.
for example, don't wait for me to set ink key profiles for a plate and then take each plate one by one to each unit. do something productive, like getting stock prepped for the next job while i'm setting plates, then come back and do all 4 at once. or dont leave the feed end for the del/console end unless you have at least 2 or 3 things to do. it's a waste of time to run back and forth. if you do need to cmoe to the delivery, check the ink fountains for fullness or take a glance at the blankets and see if any strips of paper tore off or anything else while you are walking from one end of the other. (unless of course, theres really only one thing to do or it's very important)
but what it all boils down to, is that if the operator or the feeder just don't care, you will never get them in the right zone for faster make readies. if they don't believe they can do it or they don't think there is anything wrong with the way things are going currently, it will never happen.
i try to make sure my feeder/helper is doing as much is as reasonably possibly at the same time.
for example, don't wait for me to set ink key profiles for a plate and then take each plate one by one to each unit. do something productive, like getting stock prepped for the next job while i'm setting plates, then come back and do all 4 at once. or dont leave the feed end for the del/console end unless you have at least 2 or 3 things to do. it's a waste of time to run back and forth. if you do need to cmoe to the delivery, check the ink fountains for fullness or take a glance at the blankets and see if any strips of paper tore off or anything else while you are walking from one end of the other. (unless of course, theres really only one thing to do or it's very important)
but what it all boils down to, is that if the operator or the feeder just don't care, you will never get them in the right zone for faster make readies. if they don't believe they can do it or they don't think there is anything wrong with the way things are going currently, it will never happen.
First makeready of the day is generally <20 minutes from the time the press is switched on until I'm running production. This is true on either the CD74/4L or the SM52/5L. Both presses have ink presetting, and the CD has closed loop color as well. After that - generally 10 minutes or less. Sig work and we're in the 8 minute range.
Presses are run solo (no 2nd pressman/feeder) and these numbers hold true whether myself or my staff are at the helm. Run lengths from 500-50,000+.
It is, in fact, truly amazing what modern presses and automation, when properly utilized, can achieve. I remember the days of the KORD, the GTO-46/1, and the makereadies of the time...but I digress!
Presses are run solo (no 2nd pressman/feeder) and these numbers hold true whether myself or my staff are at the helm. Run lengths from 500-50,000+.
It is, in fact, truly amazing what modern presses and automation, when properly utilized, can achieve. I remember the days of the KORD, the GTO-46/1, and the makereadies of the time...but I digress!
Freeman A.Gain
Well-known member
What size are you guys running?
What size are you guys running?
Wow! I am seriously impressed with the speeds that most of you are posting. I work on a KBA-105, 41", 8 colour with perfector, and the only way we get those times is when we do simple magazine work, where colour is not so much of an issue, or we are doing 1 over 1 work. Having said that, we do a lot of specialized work with press checks, both with clients and their designers.. geezzz!
A normal job, 4 colour perfecting, will take us around 30 min to get "in the ball park", but usually around 45 minutes.That depends if we have gutters for slowdowns and guide bars, if we don't, takes more time to sort out any marking. There are only 2 people on the machine, and it does depend on who they are as well, each feeder has his own qualities. Too bad we can't mash them all together to make a great one! LOL!
Who was doing the seminar on team work for feeders? lol
What size are you guys running?
Wow! I am seriously impressed with the speeds that most of you are posting. I work on a KBA-105, 41", 8 colour with perfector, and the only way we get those times is when we do simple magazine work, where colour is not so much of an issue, or we are doing 1 over 1 work. Having said that, we do a lot of specialized work with press checks, both with clients and their designers.. geezzz!
A normal job, 4 colour perfecting, will take us around 30 min to get "in the ball park", but usually around 45 minutes.That depends if we have gutters for slowdowns and guide bars, if we don't, takes more time to sort out any marking. There are only 2 people on the machine, and it does depend on who they are as well, each feeder has his own qualities. Too bad we can't mash them all together to make a great one! LOL!
Who was doing the seminar on team work for feeders? lol
Albert Noel
Well-known member
just the other day, i had to raise my voice to get a point across about time management.
my helper would come up to the delivery to take a load back to be flipped, and instead of lowering the feed table and swapping out the pile, he would come all the way to the delivery first and then go back and then remove it. it just takes that much longer for me to get the press started back up again.
3 times in the span of 45 mins he did this.
first time, i said basically "ive said this before, swap piles first before coming all the way down, it's faster for me to get started back up again"
the second time, about 25 mins later, i said "did you not listen to me when i said it earlier, are you deaf?"
his reply "sorry man i forgot" (which is BS, i have to remind him practically every other day to do this)
third time i just yelled "changed the goddamn pile in the feeder first!" when he got about midway down the press.
if only i could run a seminar for feeders lol
my helper would come up to the delivery to take a load back to be flipped, and instead of lowering the feed table and swapping out the pile, he would come all the way to the delivery first and then go back and then remove it. it just takes that much longer for me to get the press started back up again.
3 times in the span of 45 mins he did this.
first time, i said basically "ive said this before, swap piles first before coming all the way down, it's faster for me to get started back up again"
the second time, about 25 mins later, i said "did you not listen to me when i said it earlier, are you deaf?"
his reply "sorry man i forgot" (which is BS, i have to remind him practically every other day to do this)
third time i just yelled "changed the goddamn pile in the feeder first!" when he got about midway down the press.
if only i could run a seminar for feeders lol
Freeman A.Gain
Well-known member
PLEASE DO NOT GET ME STARTED!!!!! about feeders!
That is for another thead!
lol.
Rob
That is for another thead!
lol.
Rob
Ah! it is kind of comforting to see that we are not the only ones that are having problems with feeder people. I know I have had my share of feeders that couldnt even rember thier name from one day to the next. Maybe that is why there is a pressman baldness problem. Makes you wanna pull your hair out.
Similar threads
PressWise
|
A 30-day Fix for Managed Chaos
As any print professional knows, printing can be managed chaos. Software that solves multiple problems and provides measurable and monetizable value has a direct impact on the bottom-line. “We reduced order entry costs by about 40%.” Significant savings in a shop that turns about 500 jobs a month. Learn how……. |
