Marking a design for a cut out.

[gtgaz]

Hi there, im new here, and what a packed forum full of information!

Probably been asked before but my searches didn't pick up anything i was after.

Just a quick one, I am unsure how to mark a Business Card for a shape to be cut out of the center of the card. Lets say its a circle for example. Whats the most commonly expected way to mark this for the finishing.? I know i would need to produce a mock up at least.


Regards
Gaz.

 

[margadri]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

Hi Gary
You have to make the the circle stroke in a spot colour and call it Diecut or Dieline or Knife
Make sure that is *SPOT* and set to *Overprint* and not more than 0.8 points
When the job will be printed, the dieline will not be plated but sent it to the finishers.
They then will make a diecut (usually a block of wood with a blade shaped like your diecut imposed) and then the job will be cut by pressing the block on each job (usually with an old letterpress)
I hope it was clear enough for you and helpful
Good luck and stay out of trouble

Edited by: Adriano on Jun 21, 2008 9:47 PM

 

[gtgaz]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

Thanks alot mate. Thats very helpful!

One thing..
Can the spot colour be any colour?

Gaz

Edited by: Gary on Jun 22, 2008 12:41 PM

 

[Guest]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

Since the DieLine color is not going to be printed, it does not mater what color it appears on your screen. But it MUST be a spot color so that it can be left behind when the other colors are printed!

Another thing that will help you, and possibly also the production people, is to put this die cut shape line drawing on a layer by itself so that you can turn it on and off.

Al

 

[jimbozi]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

You might want to check with whoever is making the die for the diecutter (assuming it gets diecut). Our guy uses native AI files to make the die, so we make the dieline in illustrator and drop it in out document on a separate layer.

Then send the AI file to the diemaker.

Edited by: Jim on Jun 23, 2008 7:10 AM

 

[LoneGoose]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

Same with our die maker: I save the die line as an Illustrator 8 file and email that off with a PDF for checking against. Illustrator 8 can be imported into AutoCad - because the die maker really uses dxf or dwg.

 

[John W]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

Precisely correct! One of the reasons to keep OS9 and Ai8 or use Classic (even COI will work).
Another way is to save a CS.x version ai file all the way down to ai3 but some Cad softwares (our Cimex included) require removal of stray points that reside way outside the paste board or they will cause that PC software to freeze. Once you figure that out, it's cool and works flawlessly.

BTW, many of the diemakers still require film so if I send a PR pdf, they'll take it to another film house to get it film made! One would have to consider fit ITC. In our case, we Rip commonly to ctp as well and can still make film when needing an embossing or foil die. The main diemaker we use, takes the Cad cimex file directly thank goodness.
Soon enough, there may be zero film to buy and we as a diemaking client will run amok I'm sure.

John W

 

[russpears]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

"But it MUST be a spot color so that it can be left behind when the other colors are printed!"

Can you explain this a bit more, I do not follow why he could not just use a 100% Cyan line to mark die-cut lines, rather than pay for the extra plate?

 

[DavidMa]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

There will be NO plate used.
The purpose of making it a spot color is to make sure that it is not output on a printing plate (which in most cases would be cyan, magenta, yellow or black) and be in the work, which would result (in most cases) as a reprint.

We make a spot color here and call it "Die". We also have one for Perfs, Scores, Emboss and Glue.

HTH,
David

 

[gtgaz]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

Thanks guys. It's really helpful for me.

 

[jimbozi]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

Right. Illustrator 8 only. Not newer versions.

 

[jimbozi]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

John. Why would you want OS9? You can save down to illustrator 8 from any newer version

 

[John W]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

There are 3 reasons I can say:

1. Fonts, kerning and tracking issues along with editing in 8. OSX has different font handling so if part of the job is OS9, then all of it should be 9. Classic does not correctly do this since it is good emulation (but not for font handling!) and fonts vary wildly. My experience has shown that I get at least half the problems going back to 9 with all versions than I do dragging the old stuff forward, especially on reprint work that must match previous work exactly. If you want to spend hours checking, help yourself, I can't afford it and have been burned many times while trying!
2. I have seen very bad problems with native trapped files opened in different versions. I have seen tiff trap (application level; in 8 and earlier you would place another tiff of the same image with a positive offset path below a spot color set to overprint, then the original tiff above using the original sized path since you could not tell a multi-colored tiff to overprint = same as CT spread) screwed up big time when handled in CS or later (CS2 auto sets the second tif and without warning to multiply thinking you placed it there for that reason and spoils the job and I'll bet anyone in the world they would not catch this the first time = dark pictures!). You might be forced to do this with an old 8 file and a new version file as a combination print. Careful!
3. If you must use Quark as a layout template, then eps is required from ai. Q8 will accept native ai I am told so this prob may go away. Since we use Quark libraries and have thousands of files, we would never use Indd unless forced to. However, some of our received separated pdf's (from 'Backstage' I think), B&W of course still house the michevious transparency and certain blends and vector graphics within the pdf often will turn to a flat tint when placed in Q4, 5, 6, 7 and ripped (HqRip). So we build with the Q library, then open the same file in Indd CS2 and send to the Rip - that works providing the Q file is vers 4! Doesn't work from six or seven. Buggers! So, way too risky with Classic IMHO.

John W

 

[PDL]

Re: Marking a design for a cut out.

If your printer is using ArtiosCAD from EskoArtwork as their CAD program, or can import .ARD files into their CAD program, then you may want to check out this plugin for Adobe Illustrator CS 2 and 3 (Mac/PC), ArtiosCAD Export Plug-in : http://www.esko.com/Web/site.aspx?p=683 It will export .ARD files directly out of Ai. With the ArtiosCAD Export Plugin you also get a color palette for Ai that allows you to define your die lines in Ai as cuts, creases, folds, etc., in a way that ArtiosCAD will understand.
There is also a FREE plugin that will allow you to import .ARD files from ArtiosCAD into Ai. http://www.esko.com/Web/site.aspx?p=276