Metal FX alternative, and 5 color Seps?

[mazengh]

Hi to all... I am trying to create some special effects to make something better than the usual cmyk printout. I tested Metal FX and i liked it, but the company went out of business, so while the ink is still being sold, i don't have the right software and plugins to create for it. Is there an alternative? Also I was wandering if there is something similar to hexachrome but just 5 colors instead of 6 since the presses we have are only 5 units, and we don't want to go into two passes for a job. Any ideas? opinions?

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

Well for a Metal FX replacement there is MiraFoil from Henkel. You might want to get a price per pound quote before you get to far into it. Also you will want to run this with the UV version of you want pop, the water based version just looks like 877 Silver to me. Here's the other thing unless you have a coater with print stations after it you will have to do 2 passes.

 

[mazengh]

software simulation or swatches?

software simulation or swatches?

but how would the designer predict the color is there a swatch? or a software plugin? any other technology available out there?

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

I don't believe there are any swatch books, you could make one by building a file and printing the processed out PMS color patches. It definitely does change the look and color when you print on silver instead of white. I am told that some golf ball boxes are printed using this process for a higher end look.

How do printers show what something will look like when printing onto foil board, that may give you some help?

 

[mazengh]

UV issue

UV issue

that's a good point... but you said the UV version is better and we don't have UV printing units in our presses.

 

[gordo]

Hi to all... I am trying to create some special effects to make something better than the usual cmyk printout. I tested Metal FX and i liked it, but the company went out of business, so while the ink is still being sold, i don't have the right software and plugins to create for it. Is there an alternative? Also I was wandering if there is something similar to hexachrome but just 5 colors instead of 6 since the presses we have are only 5 units, and we don't want to go into two passes for a job. Any ideas? opinions?

If you are doing flat metallic colors - you get the special silver ink (available from any ink vendor - just tell them what you are doing) then create a color atlas - patches of various cmyk combinations overprinting silver. That's essentially what one of MetalFX's products was. The colors have nothing to do with Pantone's metallics.
For silver included in images - you'll need to build the 5th plate manually in PShop just as was done preMetalFX.
For hexachrome, I assume you mean boosting vibrancy in images - you build a "bump" plate manually in PShop using whatever color you like/need - orange, red, violet, blue, green to expand the gamut in that area. You can press tests to figure out the best methods and colors.
Doing work like this is "secret sauce" competitive differentiator stuff - I doubt you'll get much meaningful help.

best gordon p

my print blog here: Quality In Print current topic "To err is human"

 

[mazengh]

metallic effects and/or boosting vibrancy

metallic effects and/or boosting vibrancy

Gordo you read my mind; I am looking for that special sauce receipe. Mirafoil is something interesting that I would like to try sometime, but not what i want now.

For silver included in images - you'll need to build the 5th plate manually in PShop just as was done preMetalFX.

So the designer would create a 5th channel layer for that image, and choose where the metallic effects are to be placed.
My questions here would be
1) Should it be solid silver? of halftone? is there a certain kind or brand of silver that would give a better shine?
2) The ctp plate should go on the first unit same like mfx? and low densities?

For hexachrome, I assume you mean boosting vibrancy in images - you build a "bump" plate manually in PShop using whatever color you like/need - orange, red, violet, blue, green to expand the gamut in that area.

.

So the designer would create a 5th channel layer for that image, and based on how dark the color is, it is set on the approriate press unit.
My questions here would be
1) Can color be simulated on screen?
2) Do I have to print a custom 5 channel chart, print it on press, and create a custom profile using profile maker for example? and is there a way to convert rgb images to this 5 channel profile instead of cmyk?
3) How about the densities at print?
4) will this be solid or half tone? i am guessing half tone and solid where needed


While doing my research I came across a link where the auther explained substituting one of the primary colors with a metallic one similar to it, like gold for yellow. Anyone has tried this?
The link to the website is

http://www.edliveshere.com/content/metallics/4/combining_metallic_inks_with_color

I thought i would mention it although as of now i can't access the site, but if you google "combining_metallic_inks_with_color" then click on "Cached", google will show you a cached copy of the article.

 

[Luc St-Pierre]

There is a software capable of performing custom color separation in any primary color. (therefore capable of cloning MetalFX, Opaltone, Indichrome, etc.) It is called ICISS (Ineractive color independent separation software). It is sold through a company called Aurelon. aurelon.com
I have tried it and bought it, even to create CMYK color separation with a different engine than Photoshop's which 99.9% of the industry uses to (blindly?) separate to CMYK.

 

[rich apollo]

Here's a link for "Hi-Fi" color on the cheap:

Hi_Fi_color

Worked then, it'll work now. I've used this process with spectacular results. If you don't want, or don't have, six-colors; just do five. Again, I've done it and works great.

As to your questions:
Solid or halftone? Test.
Should the metallic go down first? Yes. I believe you're talking about overprinting on a metallic ink. You might also consider printing on a metallized stock. Lot's of liquor labels are produced this way. To create pop, you lay down an opaque white. Be warned though, the stock ain't cheap.

Can the color be simulated on screen? I'd have to say no. Remote Director has a way to show metallics, but I don't know if it can show the interaction with process inks.

You don't HAVE to create a custom profile, but you can. Photoshop will now support "n-color" or "multi-channel" profiles. If you choose to build a custom profile with a metallic, you'll have to have a spectrophotometer with a polarizing filter. I would recommend going to a standard, GRACoL or ISO or whatever, and simply laying that on top of the metal.

If you go with a metallic 5th, you'll have proofing challenges, too.

 

[mazengh]

Previewing....

Previewing....

Thanks for all the help so far....
Luc, you mentioned Opaltone, and Aurelon. I contacted Opaltone in north america by phone and I got the information that they don't do metallics and previewing is not accurate. I couldn't find contact information by phone to reach Aurelon; do they have an agent in north america? From your experience can you preview conversions on screen? Inkjet proofing is not something i care about for the moment... and last what about densities at which the extra should be printed. In addition, in one of the other threads you posted on, someone mentioned (switching Magenta to a florescent Pink and Cyan to a light cyan). That is something that interests me too, have you done that successfully? Also what about preview? I am not wanting to preview the florescent shine, but the way the color will mix with the other colors.

Rich, I am still reviewing the pdf files on the website...

 

[Luc St-Pierre]

mazenfh,
Proofing is indeed the tricky part, depending on your set-up for contract proofing. Latran proofing would be a good pick. If you want the real facts about this software, call Glynn Hartley (he is in England but he is often in US an Canada) Phone +44 115 962 6060 [email protected] and give him my salutations.
Softproofing is as good as your monitor can be. You can go for any ink color at any density as basic components of your color separation.

 

[PantherMac]

There is a software capable of performing custom color separation in any primary color. (therefore capable of cloning MetalFX, Opaltone, Indichrome, etc.) It is called ICISS (Ineractive color independent separation software). It is sold through a company called Aurelon. aurelon.com
I have tried it and bought it, even to create CMYK color separation with a different engine than Photoshop's which 99.9% of the industry uses to (blindly?) separate to CMYK.

OMG, thanks for mentioning this one Luc! I can't begin to tell you how cool this software is. Used it in my last life in Packaging... Worth the purchase price, and yes, it will do what you're asking about (swapping colors, etc.) We were able to swap Reflex in for Black, and run an amazing amount of PMS branded work on our 4-color press in one pass....

Glynn is an absolute delight, and he is well worth the 1-day training cost. I highly recommend getting him to come by and explain the software (tell him Kevin say's Hi!). ICISS's interface/functions took a while to get used to, it's not like any other program (hence the training recommendation). But if you get 1 operator that can get their head around it, it's pretty amazing stuff. Damn near trippy for some ink-heads. Anybody remember making 'bump' PMS plates in the darkroom? Same deal, only better (and color accurate!) Freaking amazing product.

We were able to proof fine on our Kodak Approvals, though yes, you can't _really_ proof metaillic inks (we found printing on metallized paper easier in most cases!)

- Mac

 

[David Ingram]

They Use prototypes - custom made by hand

They Use prototypes - custom made by hand

I don't believe there are any swatch books, you could make one by building a file and printing the processed out PMS color patches. It definitely does change the look and color when you print on silver instead of white. I am told that some golf ball boxes are printed using this process for a higher end look.

How do printers show what something will look like when printing onto foil board, that may give you some help?

Most high end packaging like this, I know that the San Francisco Ad Agencies have an actual prototype made by hand, by a special company, that still uses film positives and "Color Key" style pantone sheets, like the old PMT process, where the differing ink colors are actually laid onto the actual foil board., and the prototype is then as close as possible to the finished product.

 

[PantherMac]

Man... Kodak should be ALL OVER that place (those KA's are amazing).

- Mac

 

[michaelejahn]

@ mazengh

What you need to do is contact one person and hire him to come in and train you and set you up - after he leaves you will have everything you need and be able to do everything you want.

Glynn Hartley
email -- [email protected]

Specialcolor
ICISS - CoCo - nColor
25 Redcliffe Road
Nottingham, NG3 5BW UK
Tel. +44 115 962 6060

Specialcolor - Worldwide distributors and implementers of color separation and color correction tools

Because a number of "CoCo downloaders" have confused CoCo with the separation of Hexachrome, rather than selective color correction, let me share that CoCo Multi Channel (not CoCo RGB-CMYK) is ideal for correcting Hexachrome separations.

When Specialcolor refers to CoCo Multi Channel and "separation", that is usually for bump plates, spot colors, t-shirts, ceramics . . . . . . )

Specialcolor uses a different Photoshop plug-in that enabled multi channel separating with any profile, (since January 1997), is called nColor Converter.

I am not arguing with anyone to use this instead of other Hexcahrome separations or any other Photoshop facility now that it can handle that. That is just for your information.

Specialcolor sells plenty of nColor Converters for other purposes.

When Specialcolor implement nColor separation for any files for any situation, we use ICISS (and a bundled CoCo Multi Channel).

Specialcolor works on a one-to-one basis. This is complicated with complex issues that relate to selecting the proper inks and setting up a proofing method. My friend Scot R Fernandez at Hallmark uses this, and also uses Apago PDF Enhancer to generate proper 5 / 7 color PDF files and send them to suppliers - Scot shared at a conference I attended how to make color moves using HSB tools (using a Photoshop Plug-in) which provided advantages when coupled with a custom RGB profile and "DeviceN PDF out" strategy. This is a bit different than what the original post is about, but I share this in the case that you needed a way to send PDF outside your shop.

Hope this helps !

 

[markingman]

Metal FX

Metal FX

Hi to all... I am trying to create some special effects to make something better than the usual cmyk printout. I tested Metal FX and i liked it, but the company went out of business, so while the ink is still being sold, i don't have the right software and plugins to create for it. Is there an alternative? Also I was wandering if there is something similar to hexachrome but just 5 colors instead of 6 since the presses we have are only 5 units, and we don't want to go into two passes for a job. Any ideas? opinions?

Has I have the contract for the Metal FX support for the next year, I can offer this advice. If you are a printer, and aren't licensed you will not be able to buty the ink. If however you are a designer, you could contact a licensed printer to get the job printed, and they will hold the software and swatches for you to be able to design the job with. If they are a recent purchaser of the license, they may also have the mycolorviz visualisation software which would aid the design process. You can find all the license printers by using the search engine on the metal FX websire Welcome to MetalFX® Technology +44 (0) 1943 88 48 88. Alternatively, Colorlogic Uk Ltd are metalFX specialists and may be able to aid you further.
Has to an alternative, I am unaware of any product that goes as far as the swatch book, so prediction would be difficult.

 

[mazengh]

printer with no license

printer with no license

We have a prepress and a print house, but with no mfx license. I was thinking I could always get metallic silver and create a swatch book myself. right?

so far i have to say Aurelon has the solution, but still researching it, and wandering if the preview on the screen is good enough.

 

[PantherMac]

If you can do recipe colors on your proofing solution (ahem, shameless KA plug...), it should be no problem. We used Iciss to generate DCS2 files that we mapped through our Artpro/Nexus RIP, but any machine capable of understanding OPI should be able to work w/ the DCS's... As long as it can pick out separations by name, it's a lock.

- Mac

 

[mazengh]

rip

rip

we use harlequin rip 7.2, so it will just detect the 5th color as "other color" where other color would be setup for angle and screening rules.

 

[[email protected]]

Check out EskoArtwork's Visualizer. It is a standalone application which can preview the printed result taking into account the substrate, special inks and finishing effects. As to the substrate it not only shows matt or glossy paper, but also the effect of textured paper of corrugated material, of the effect of a print on non-paper substrates like PE, OPP, metal, glass, ... Among the special inks it can simulate are the MetalFX inks, but also others like Eckart metallic inks. The finishing effects include lamination, varnishing, embossing, foil blocking, etc.
Every separation of a PDF file can be assigned to one of the special finishes, so what mazengh is doing with a 5-separation file is very easy to do in Visualizer. This application will not help in making the correct separations, but it is a quick and easy way to get a preview when you are making "weird" combinations, so you are not working blind.