Never Tear problem

[Hightower]

Hi, we have a majot problem with Xerox Never Tear... it is supposed to be "water-proof" but our customers claim that printed text is peeling of from the surface if it gets wet?? Have anyone experienced same and do you have alternatives?

 

[X33]

what machine are you using to print on it?

 

[Craig]

I use Nekoosa Thermanent with success. The only thing we have found that removes the image (short of scrubbing it with Alcohol) is Buffalo Wing Sauce (used on a menu for a wing joint... Ooops ).

 

[geoman]

What weight/thickness are you running? And what machine?

 

[geoman]

Hightower, this just in...

I happen to have some "tags" printed on NeverTear 270micron today, and have tested them underwater for you.

Results:
1. Printed simplex on 700DCP - wet & dry test conditions, toner displays very strong adhesion to the substrate, even after harsh scrathing with finger nail. Toner scratches off when attacked with a blade

2. Printed duplex on 8002 - wet & dry test conditions, toner displays very strong adhesion to the substrate, even after harsh scrathing with finger nail. Toner scratches off when attacked with a blade

Is it possible that you have a bad batch of NT? or your fuser setting are too low for the weight you are running?

 

[[email protected]]

Water-soluble?

Water-soluble?

Both the toner in the never tear material have 0% water. I would ask the customer to bring you in the sample and show you how water removes the ink. It is likely a fusing issue and the problem would happen with or without water.

 

[billyinlasvegas]

I was having the same problem with some menus I did for our bars by the pool. I couldn't get the toner to come off the page. I even left the menus in chlorinated water overnight.
Then I found out that they were pouring alcohol on them and that made the toner come off instantly.

 

[Craig]

I though the alcohol (liqueur) was the culprit too, even testes several off the shelf at home. (what a waste of good booze) Unless I scrubbed the sheet with booze it was fine. But throw a little wing sauce on it and the image lifted right off.

I have run both the 11 mil and 14 mil on a Xerox DC8000AP.

 

[CSimpson]

Craig, it sounds like vinegar might be the cause. It is also an additive in some non-ammonia based glass cleaners. If that is the case it wouldn't be a good product for any restaurant in which vinegar based foods or vinegar based cleaner was used.

Hightower, are they specifying the wetness is from water? If not, the first step would to find out what liquid is causing the print to rub off.

 

[Craig]

Vinegar......DUH! The one thing I didn't try, even Pronto press wash had a tough time getting the image off!

 

[geoman]

Confirmed, just tried vinegar (standard salad grade) on a NT 270micron sample I have lying around.
Interesting things to note: Side 1of sheet printed is printed with text only. I saprayed this side with vinegar and then started to scratch the toner. The toner doesn't actually get attackled by the vinegar, but rather the rough etched coating that forms the top-most layer of the NeverTear. I confrmed this by doing the same thing on a high toner coverage print that is on the reverse side - thsi time vinegar beads in contact with the toner film layer. Not until I vigorously scratch the toner to reveal the layer underneath that material top-coating starts to dissolve.

 

[snowlion]

Have big problems with nevertear and water.
After printing putting a wet cloth on the print and wait a few minutes. You can rub the print off with the cloth. Happened also at the demo center of Xerox
Imerse prints in water and wait for a while and you can rub the print off. no mater how many days after printing.
As soon as the print is dry no problem
Printed id cards, customer returned them because human sweat made the print come off.
Xerox knows about the problem, have in black and white a circular where they admit the problem. But officially they don't admit the problem.