New 9200 Questions

[ColorMonkey]

Okay so I am excited we actually have this on the floor now and ready to produce some work on it however, I have a few questions hopefully other operators can clarify or let me know if they are having the same issue.

Image skew on sheet.

So this is a weird one because the image was skewed on the lead and trail edge of the sheet however perfectly parallel with the front and rear edges of the sheet. Easy fix. I roll to paer cat for the paper go to Perpendicularity adjustment... oh wait that adjustment is not listed. So I roll to the AdjSkilledOp settings and there it is. No matter which way I adjust this setting I see no result. Doesn't matter if I'm using a PapCat entry or generic paper settings.

So then I go to the Automatic image adjust and burn through sheets only to have the function not fix my problem. Is this a hit or miss thing from your experience?

Next is SpotPro.
I assume the correct way this works is every time you make an adjustment to a spot you have to remove raster? If I print a sheet then go and make a change to the spot, it does not show the change. Then I noticed if I remove the raster it will take effect. This behaves differently than my last RIP so just want to make sure this sounds right and what you all have found as well.

That is all for now but this crooked, skewed image thing is really a pain in the rear. I hope I do not have to do it for every type of paper. I can burn the sheets for auto adjust if it's house stock but I wont be able to do it otherwise for stocks not commonly used or label or synthetics.

Thanks for any info

 

[rcreveli]

If it's a Fiery Rip you have to remove raster for the spot color adjustments to take effect.

 

[ColorMonkey]

It is and that's what I figured. Our other Fiery you did not need to do this I think it was a F150?

Thanks rc for clarifying.

 

[rcreveli]

Interesting, I've had to do this on all my Fiery machines regardless of who the engine was made by.

 

[[email protected]]

1. If you are not getting good results with the auto registration feature it's entirely possible that some mechanical adjustments need to be made to the machine. I've seen this on numerous brand-new units so get the service tech to take a look.

2. When making changes to spot colors make sure you are referencing the proper output profile for the paper you are using otherwise you will not see any changes.

Have you had official training yet from your Ricoh Solutions Engineer? They should have been able to work with you on these and any other issues.

 

[msaeger]

Okay so I am excited we actually have this on the floor now and ready to produce some work on it however, I have a few questions hopefully other operators can clarify or let me know if they are having the same issue.

Image skew on sheet.

So this is a weird one because the image was skewed on the lead and trail edge of the sheet however perfectly parallel with the front and rear edges of the sheet. Easy fix. I roll to paer cat for the paper go to Perpendicularity adjustment... oh wait that adjustment is not listed. So I roll to the AdjSkilledOp settings and there it is. No matter which way I adjust this setting I see no result. Doesn't matter if I'm using a PapCat entry or generic paper settings.

So then I go to the Automatic image adjust and burn through sheets only to have the function not fix my problem. Is this a hit or miss thing from your experience?

Next is SpotPro.
I assume the correct way this works is every time you make an adjustment to a spot you have to remove raster? If I print a sheet then go and make a change to the spot, it does not show the change. Then I noticed if I remove the raster it will take effect. This behaves differently than my last RIP so just want to make sure this sounds right and what you all have found as well.

That is all for now but this crooked, skewed image thing is really a pain in the rear. I hope I do not have to do it for every type of paper. I can burn the sheets for auto adjust if it's house stock but I wont be able to do it otherwise for stocks not commonly used or label or synthetics.

Thanks for any info

What does the test page that prints after the auto adjustment look like? Do you see the issue on there? You could try and adjust trapezoidal image in the paper catalog.

Yeah I see the issue with needing to re-rip a job to get the changes to take too. Sometimes I don't need to and sometimes I do so I just tell everyone to always do it.

The other issue you may see when using the paper catalog is it not using the output profile that you think it is. On the color tab make sure the output profile being used is the one you are expecting.

 

[ColorMonkey]

Yea so as far as the spot color issue goes as I said before on the RIP tied to the 7110 never had to remove rater, but this is a different beast and appears we need to so no problem. Noted.

I have two techs coming today there is definitely something wrong and come to think of it I don't think they ran a baseline when they were here. Due to time constraints. That is what they plan to do today and they also mentioned the PTB could be causing a bit of trouble related to this as well. To answer the question about the auto registration test sheet after it ran its adjustments, so, yes it still was crooked at lead edge maybe mm or two, the trail edge was as well however not as bad, but off. The two lines that run along the feed direction were perfect though. Actually every time we have tried the auto registration those two lines are perfect.

So the other issue is the Perpendicularity adjustment seems to have absolutely no effect. Doesn't matter if it's a generic paper setting or a catalog entry. Regarding the Trapezoidal Adj not sure if it works but the adj does not apply to what adj is needed to square the image.

Official training no, but ran through a few things and other than the remove raster behavior we are fine if we could just get the image square and be able to rely on the auto registration adj. I work in a prison so it is difficult atm especially with the whole Covid thing to actually get techs in here to be able to do formal training but that option is there and most likely will happen down the road.

Thanks guys always a big help on way or another I will let you know what comes from today after the tech get there hands on the machine.

 

[jo3ywong]

What is your paper size and type for the skew problem? I got it fixed by using the max width 13inch x 19inch paper. Can also try to lower down the speed.

 

[ColorMonkey]

So we were able to get somewhere with the skewing issue. So in running a baseline the test sheet showed what I saw skewing at the lead and the trail edge however didnt look as bad as what I initially saw. The figured that, after 2 hours of troubleshooting, they figured the black laser mirror? needing to be adjusted and was the reason for the skewing. It did improve a lot when they addressed this. Still needs to be adjusted but looks good for now at least acceptable to run.

So far really happy with the image quality and ability to lay down on everything we've thrown at it so far. Haven't had to print on texture or synthetic yet but other problem stocks we were fighting on the 7110 seem to print with no problem.

Jury is still out on the ACD funtion. I was told after I create my profile with FCPS I run ACD and link it and I'm good to go. Don't need to ever calibrate the engine does it for you. Mmmm not sure how I feel about that or tbh, how I feel about ACD all together. It will be fun to see this at play though.

 

[[email protected]]

So we were able to get somewhere with the skewing issue. So in running a baseline the test sheet showed what I saw skewing at the lead and the trail edge however didnt look as bad as what I initially saw. The figured that, after 2 hours of troubleshooting, they figured the black laser mirror? needing to be adjusted and was the reason for the skewing. It did improve a lot when they addressed this. Still needs to be adjusted but looks good for now at least acceptable to run.

So far really happy with the image quality and ability to lay down on everything we've thrown at it so far. Haven't had to print on texture or synthetic yet but other problem stocks we were fighting on the 7110 seem to print with no problem.

Jury is still out on the ACD funtion. I was told after I create my profile with FCPS I run ACD and link it and I'm good to go. Don't need to ever calibrate the engine does it for you. Mmmm not sure how I feel about that or tbh, how I feel about ACD all together. It will be fun to see this at play though.

So there're a couple things going on there. The ACD will keep the densities in check but it's not for calibrating. It manages color tones and densities through the use of an RGB scanning system and compares the readings with benchmark data and makes adjustments on the fly. The in-line auto color calibration allows the operator to maintain existing calibrations originally created using the spectrometer without having to use it. The spectrometer is used to create an initial solid target for the calibration set that is then used for the in-line calibrations. In practical terms what that means is that once you have a good calibration using the spectro you can use the in-line method to maintain it but if the curves start to wander too much to maintain color consistency or accuracy, for instance after replacing parts that affect image quality, then you need to hand-calibrate again.

 

[thebluesdude]

As far as Im aware its the same registration system as the smaller 7200 which we have. Tech has not been able to sort the skew problem or the automatic image adjust. They have concluded after 8 months it must be a faulty unit and have agreed to swap it out. However they still cant guarantee its not going to be an issue when they install the new one. We found if you deleted all the paper profiles and re installed them they would be square and register well, then the next day they would be 4mm out of whack. Running the manual trapezoid at full tilt one way and the opposite on the rear was nearer but still out. The automatic sensor adjust gets the sheets to line up but at a 4mm out of square position. Senior tech been on it for months before calling in European specialists who still couldn't fix. I should have learned really we have a 7110 its predecessor which has a similar fault which they couldnt fix, we have to adjust the paper feed tray manually to get registration. Its a shame because everything else is great.

 

[ColorMonkey]

So I never followed up on this, I ended up addressing this problem a second time but this time with my usual tech whom I trust very very much as far as resolving weird out of the norm issue like this. He ordered a black laser just in case and thought it might be the motor that controls the mirror was not working as intended. After screwing around with the machine in a methodical manner he finally said well, if I don't put the laser in they will question me on it so, lets throw it in.

After doing that we seemed to be getting somewhere with adjustments and finally got the lines parallel to the lead/trail edge of the sheet. After that the only adjustments that I made for the different paper types was size, position, and trapezoidal adj. Now I can get it tick for tick which is pretty amazing tbh.

@thebluesdude hope you have some luck getting that closer than were it's at. 4mm is a lot in my book.

 

[jo3ywong]

Actual artwork size 445mm, printing output 443mm, height 297mm = ok. Happened to my 9200, when printing card stock and not on paper stock setting. It was somehow the printing was reduced by almost 2mm (only on the width side), of course with one of the bottom right cropmark still off Trapezoid-ly, the other 3 is perfectly straight. Tested in Ricoh showroom for its 9200, same problem, but the 7200 is more accurate.
Kinda interim-solved it (need to get my job done as i need to print accurately on top of a specific foil stamping area) Did with the Image Magnification 0.35% (was width-thinner of 2mm), still off my 0.5mm. However, not able to set to magnification 0.36%, as the next jump is 0.375%, else 0.36% will be almost perfect. Did the Perpendicularity Adjustment and the Trapezoidal adjustment to get it to a more acceptable level.