Office or Shop for Print/Copy Company?

[gazfocus]

Might seem a bit off topic but bear with me...

As some of you might recall, we started our print business by reselling print services but like many others, found that local customers wanted printing quicker than we could offer, so we started doing some printing in-house and now have a Xerox C560 beast.

Our office lease is due for renewal soon but we're beginning to wonder whether we would be better off with a 'shop/store' instead of an office as this may attract passing trade.

I'm just curious to hear what you guys have in terms of business premises and whether you get any passing trade.

Thanks

 

[Craig]

That's a tough one to answer. It's almost based on your situation. Do you see the production end of your business growing? If so you may need a larger production space, but how big? Our shop is not the normal print shop. We have a 3000 square foot retail store as well. We have a heave presence in social printing as well as commercial printing. But that is our business model, and it works for us pretty well. Your plan more than likely is different.

I know when we made a location change 3 years ago it was a difficult decision, but has paid off well. Good luck!

 

[gazfocus]

Thanks Craig, I appreciate your comments.

To answer your question, I guess I can only hope the production side will increase. Back when I joined this forum the print business was very much part time alongside my full time job, but having lost my job, this is now my full time business (although it's currently not paying me a wage). I firmly believe that having more time to spend on the business, promoting, etc, the business will grow quicker than it has so far.

In terms of in-house production, I still have a lot to learn, so tend to outsource as much as I can while I'm learning, but my goal is for all local business to be printed in-house eventually.

My main issue with our current office is that while its big enough (for now), it's a first floor office suite, so when we have paper deliveries, etc, they only deliver to the ground floor and we have to carry them up the stairs. This also limited our choice in printers somewhat to what would fit up the stairs.

Someone on another forum has actually suggested a light industrial unit might be better but I'm not sure.

I like the idea of having a town centre based shop where people can just walk in, and I also want to create a space where people can come and either design something themselves or site down with us to design something together, but obviously that also comes with drawbacks (needing to be open without fail), etc, but my worry is that we'll get bogged down with customers that just want a few sheets of b&w photocopies.

We have seen a shop locally that has a huge area in the back that could house the print equipment and a fairly decent size shop front but as you say it's a difficult decision to make.

 

[jrsc]

Be careful with the customers coming in for design. If they sit down with you to design it will take forever unless you are charging a hefty hourly fee. It's almost a science, the less they are buying the more time they want to spend with you designing.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

the less they are buying the more time they want to spend with you designing.

While you wait designing is not a thing in our store. Nor is the customer allowed to be in the design department with the designer on the computer. Each minute is billed to the customer.

Also, depending on the side of town you choose, you may have trashy customers come in who make a scene over everything. We don't chase the "I need cheap business cards now", as it is never worth our time. X for business cards?!? And I have to wait 2 days for a proof? You want to charge me to rush them? Yes, if you need them that fast I will charge you. My responsibility is to make a profit off of you. Plus, those customers will never be satisfied.

 

[gazfocus]

Thanks for the comments. I must admit what you say about design is something I've experienced as a web developer - as you say, the ones not wanting to spend a lot are typically the ones that change every little detail.

We currently cater for the, let's say, cost conscious, but this is just while we are getting established. Our goal is to produce more in house, offer speedy service, but as you say charge extra for the privilege.

I guess our first job is to decide who to cater for and how to make the move from what we are currently doing.

 

[Windward]

The problem with retail space in our area--and perhaps yours, too--is that it's much more expensive than industrial/flex space. So, you may find yourself handling more walk-in, low-profit jobs just to pay the rent. Whatever location you choose, it would be better to try to develop relationships with businesses that have ongoing or repeat projects. If you plan to offer design services, you should combine them with printing so you can be a one-stop resource. This allows you to compete based on service and quality rather than just price.

 

[gazfocus]

The problem with retail space in our area--and perhaps yours, too--is that it's much more expensive than industrial/flex space. So, you may find yourself handling more walk-in, low-profit jobs just to pay the rent. Whatever location you choose, it would be better to try to develop relationships with businesses that have ongoing or repeat projects. If you plan to offer design services, you should combine them with printing so you can be a one-stop resource. This allows you to compete based on service and quality rather than just price.

It's hard to compare retail vs industrial in our area because the retail space is cheaper (one shop we saw online was £600/month), but they tend to be much smaller. So while an industrial unit is bigger, it costs more. The other thing to consider is a lot of industrial units tend to be very bare so would need a lot of work to make it a warm, usable space.

That said, I am coming to the conclusion that a unit of some sort is the best option (either an industrial unit or a self contained ground floor office).

On the design front, that is something we do currently as otherwise we couldn't compete. We have a couple of sectors that seem to require regular work so will be reaching out to businesses in these sectors in the near future.

 

[pacart]

Why not both? Our place is a 1000 sq ft office and a 3000 sq ft shop. We have an area for customers to come in and discuss their projects etc. and a an area where our employees work that customers aren't allowed in.

Also, we definitely don't allow customers to work with our designers at their computers, if a customer needs design help, they can discuss it with a designer out front where our designer takes notes and thats it. We also limit the amount of time to around 15 minutes and then try to get them moving out the door.

 

[gazfocus]

Why not both? Our place is a 1000 sq ft office and a 3000 sq ft shop. We have an area for customers to come in and discuss their projects etc. and a an area where our employees work that customers aren't allowed in.

Also, we definitely don't allow customers to work with our designers at their computers, if a customer needs design help, they can discuss it with a designer out front where our designer takes notes and thats it. We also limit the amount of time to around 15 minutes and then try to get them moving out the door.

The main issue is staffing really. Our company is in its very early stages so only has myself and my wife working for them company (and my wife is also a University student), so 50% of the time, I'm there alone.

I have actually given this A LOT of thought over the past week. I've come to the realisation that our current office is not suitable long-term. The biggest being that it's a first floor office so any deliveries have to be carried up the stairs, and if we want to start producing more printing in-house, the paper deliveries are going to get larger, and more difficult to carry up the flight of stairs.

I am leaning more towards an industrial unit as you can generally get a much bigger space for the money, and while an industrial unit may need a lot of work internally to make it nice, it would give us plenty of room to store stock, and space for all the equipment on my ever growing wish list.

 

[pippip]

Depending on the industrial units you're looking at it mightn't be an issue but you want the inside to be reasonably climate controllable. I'm guessing you're in the UK (based on your £ reference) so too hot won't be an issue but you don't want a damp cold warehouse or you'll start to encounter issues with damp stocks and machines print quality.

 

[gazfocus]

Depending on the industrial units you're looking at it mightn't be an issue but you want the inside to be reasonably climate controllable. I'm guessing you're in the UK (based on your £ reference) so too hot won't be an issue but you don't want a damp cold warehouse or you'll start to encounter issues with damp stocks and machines print quality.

Yeah, I was thinking we'd need to invest in some sort of air conditioning/heating which might actually make an industrial unit out of our budget for the time being - this is why it's so difficult to make the decision.

 

[Possumgal]

Be careful with the customers coming in for design. If they sit down with you to design it will take forever unless you are charging a hefty hourly fee. It's almost a science, the less they are buying the more time they want to spend with you designing.

I'll second this. You'd be surprised at the people who really have no idea what they want and will just eat up your day piddling around. Then then are the ones who want this blue, no, make it green, no, make it blue again, well, I don't know......

Also, I'd advise against letting customers design stuff for themselves in your shop. You're letting yourself in for all kinds of problems when you let the public use your stuff, especially computers. If you do go this route, make sure that computer is not connected to the internet, and don't let them plug in any USB drives without scanning them for yucky stuff. Actually, somebody from your shop will just have to stand over them and watch them anyway to make sure they don't sneak anything into or off of your computer and because they'll be yelling for help constantly anyway.

 

[Puch]

Eventually you will need a shop/office/factory at the ground level, as carrying the paper up only one floor is not feasible in the long term. We see companies which are on some elevated levels but there is always an elevator especially suitable for lifting machinery/raw materials. Also, the business model is that the raw materials come in in big chunks, but the actual selling goes off in small packages (carried away by the customers themselves, or by couriers).

If you want to go into really high-volume production, ground level is a must. That said, a nice shop in the downtown can be very expensive (2 EUR/sq foot in our area). That sum can be paid only by very-high-added-value-jobs, which need special machinery, advanced automation, trained and well-paid staff, etc. A big investment and a total confidence from the investor's side what you need here.

The other model is to place the business at a low-rent industrial area, see who's coming in the door and through your website, then set up a separate, small design studio in the downtown if the need arise.

And charge every minute the customer spent before your screen, as others already said.

 

[gazfocus]

I'll second this. You'd be surprised at the people who really have no idea what they want and will just eat up your day piddling around. Then then are the ones who want this blue, no, make it green, no, make it blue again, well, I don't know......

Also, I'd advise letting customers design stuff for themselves in your shop. You're letting yourself in for all kinds of problems when you let the public use your stuff, especially computers. If you do go this route, make sure that computer is not connected to the internet, and don't let them plug in any USB drives without scanning them for yucky stuff. Actually, somebody from your shop will just have to stand over them and watch them anyway to make sure they don't sneak anything into or off of your computer and because they'll be yelling for help constantly anyway.

Thanks - we've actually decided that this isn't a good idea As you say, it would end up taking up too much of our time, and we would not be able to get work done. We're also thinking a shop isn't going to be right for us as we'd have to employ staff sooner to cover if my wife or I can't work for whatever reason.

 

[gazfocus]

Eventually you will need a shop/office/factory at the ground level, as carrying the paper up only one floor is not feasible in the long term. We see companies which are on some elevated levels but there is always an elevator especially suitable for lifting machinery/raw materials. Also, the business model is that the raw materials come in in big chunks, but the actual selling goes off in small packages (carried away by the customers themselves, or by couriers).

If you want to go into really high-volume production, ground level is a must. That said, a nice shop in the downtown can be very expensive (2 EUR/sq foot in our area). That sum can be paid only by very-high-added-value-jobs, which need special machinery, advanced automation, trained and well-paid staff, etc. A big investment and a total confidence from the investor's side what you need here.

The other model is to place the business at a low-rent industrial area, see who's coming in the door and through your website, then set up a separate, small design studio in the downtown if the need arise.

And charge every minute the customer spent before your screen, as others already said.

Thanks Puch, yeah we pretty much agree that in the long term we definitely need a ground floor premise. We've pretty much ruled out a shop, so it's between a better office with better access or a light industrial unit. I actually went to view 2 industrial units today - one was 775sqft which seemed pretty small (although has potential for an upper floor), and one was 2100sqft which was much too big (and too expensive), so we're looking for something in between really.

Would be interested to hear what size premises you guys all have, and what you have in there.

 

[Craig]

We went from a 2300sqft to a 9000sqft building 3 years ago and are filling it up fast!

 

[Puch]

We are at 2000 sqft currently and it's barely enough. That's for 2 production machines, a small bindery and some office space with a small meeting room. Prepress/Administration is separate office on 700 sqft. But I've seen a company stuffed into a 600 sqft flat with 3 production machines and a perfect binder. They were chasing each other on one foot wide paths between the machinery... )

 

[gazfocus]

Looks like we're going to struggle to get what we need. We've seen two industrial units so far - one at 775sqft (with the potential to add a mezzanine floor), and one at 2100sqft. The one at 2100sqft is too big for us at the moment so we asked if they would split it (as it's currently being built and has two doors, etc), but they refused. The one at 775sqft feels too small (although we know we can get everything in with space left over), but they want us to jump through hoops (6 year lease, rent review after 3 years, personal guarantee, rent deposit, etc) and we would have to install our own lighting and electrical sockets.

There just doesn't seem to be much else available in our current area

 

[Craig]

Make sure as you are figuring space to check your equipment contracts to see if there are required service space in them. Sometimes that is overlooked. If you can afford a larger space I would go for it, especially if you have a track record of growth. It's pretty expensive to have riggers come in and move in a year or two. We had about $4000.00 to move 1 mile down the road in rigger fees. Also make sure you have ample electric service. Some if the larger cutters/folders are 3 phase, though you can special order some 1 phase for an added cost. It so hard to get a clear picture in the crystal ball! Good Luck!!