Offset Paper and Digital Machines

[overtwo]

I would like to know what your take is on using offset paper in a digital machine. I already know it's not supposed to be used that way and can damage the longevity/integrity of the machine. I was even asked what my opinion is and told them "you wouldn't put diesel fuel in your car just because it's cheaper would you?." I guess that wan't a good enough analogy for them...

My question is, how many of you (like me) are forced to run offset material (in very large amounts, 170K sheets) through there digital machine? I use the word "forced" because our sales staff is offset minded and are stuck in their ways. I have tried over and over again to steer them in the right direction, but I guess the saying applies here "you can't teach an old dog new tricks..."

 

[Damian Lacey]

We are fairly new to the digital market around 18 months now and yes we have used x amount of litho paper but they have all been laser guaranteed papers.

I have seen for my own eyes the paper residue left inside a digital machine and have tried to steer clear from using litho papers.

As many digital companies employ staff with a litho background I can see the issue with salesman running off and doing as they please. All I can say is reduce your stock of litho paper and force the issue, there is no doubt in my mind that digital papers print better and run in a digital machine a lot better than litho.

 

[RafalWM]

digital paper runs better, but it all depends on the machine and how you work things out with the technicians. Some machines can handle certain kinds of offset stock, some can't.

 

[EASYdoor]

I highly advise that you're using digital paper, but sometimes we're just stuck with litho stock in that case I always cut the paper myself the proper way:
1. be sure to use a sharp blade,
2. after you've made the cut wipe the excess dust with a cloth
3. before you put it in printer use jogger to minimize static to avoid double feeding.

I know it's a lot of work, but it simply works

 

[RafalWM]

I highly advise that you're using digital paper, but sometimes we're just stuck with litho stock in that case I always cut the paper myself the proper way:
1. be sure to use a sharp blade,
2. after you've made the cut wipe the excess dust with a cloth
3. before you put it in printer use jogger to minimize static to avoid double feeding.

I know it's a lot of work, but it simply works

running it through a 4 color offset works even better

 

[overtwo]

1. be sure to use a sharp blade,
2. after you've made the cut wipe the excess dust with a cloth
3. before you put it in printer use jogger to minimize static to avoid double feeding.

This is good to reduce the paper shred/frey on the outsides of the paper but does not eliminate the press powder that is shipped on offset stock.

 

[overtwo]

I have seen for my own eyes the paper residue left inside a digital machine and have tried to steer clear from using litho papers.

I have been in digital my entire printing career (since 2005) and have seen first hand what offset stock does to a machine and have pressed the issue like no other. I have even gone to the extent of showing the president of the company exactly what is going on inside the machine when press powder from offset stock is introduced. They just look the other way and wait for the tech to come in and fix the problems...

 

[Craig]

but does not eliminate the press powder that is shipped on offset stock.

What? When did the mills start putting spray powder on the sheets????? Guess I don't need to buy it anymore.

The OP is asking about running offset paper NOT shells from an offset press. More like Cougar vs. Hammermill Color Copy or Anthem vs. Futura. Here's my take after 13 years of running digital machines. If it works.... fine, if not switch. Now, running shells from an offset press is a completely different story, where you're asking for trouble or a lot of maintenance.

 

[dabob]

ez fix for powder . . .

ez fix for powder . . .

if you are running the offset first the best thing to do is to dust your sheet by running it back though your offset machine and dry hit it . . .presto . .. 95 of the powder is gone

 

[EASYdoor]

if you are running the offset first the best thing to do is to dust your sheet by running it back though your offset machine and dry hit it . . .presto . .. 95 of the powder is gone

Really, this works?!?! 95% that's a lot. Although to be 100% sure we'll probably need something that prints without any powder.

 

[overtwo]

What? When did the mills start putting spray powder on the sheets????? Guess I don't need to buy it anymore.

The OP is asking about running offset paper NOT shells from an offset press.

Sorry, I meant shells. We are running a black and white imprint job. And from what I've seen, paper for offset presses come with a slight amount of powder on them to begin with. You can feel/see the powder from a freshly opened box of paper.

if you are running the offset first the best thing to do is to dust your sheet by running it back though your offset machine and dry hit it . . .presto . .. 95 of the powder is gone

We've tried this as well with the result still showing powder on the rubber rollers inside the digital machine. Although it does help slightly, it doesn't solve the problem...

 

[dabob]

its paper dust not offset powder

its paper dust not offset powder

I have never heard of paper coming with powder in the carton/box. It wouldn't make any difference to the feeder and it would sure make a difference in the image. I think what you are seeing is paper dust which would be present in any kind of paper from the sheeting when it manufactured. In my opinion and we have both digital presses and conventional I have noticed very little difference in dust content between "offset" sheets and "digital" sheets.

 

[mglouis]

The only paper we run is 12.5 x 19 trimmed 4-out from 28x40 on our docucolor5000. We get lots of paper dust so we vacuum weekly. We have a tech come onsite monthly to clean areas we cannot get too and to change drums or whatever. We run board stock, opaques, gloss, silks, mattes, dulls, offset. My main gripe is on the thicker coated papers, that the yellow adheres irregularly which causes a blue mottle in shadow detail. These stocks fit within the GSM rating of the machine but are quite thick. I think its the enamel causing the yellow trapping problem, fwiw.

 

[overtwo]

I think what you are seeing is paper dust which would be present in any kind of paper from the sheeting when it manufactured.

Thank you for the correction. I have never ran an offset press nor cut down paper.

edit: I just confirmed with the pressman that it is more so paper dust and NOT powder that is around the edges of offset stock. My apologies for the confusion/miscommunication.

 

[Craig]

Thank you for the correction. I have never ran an offset press nor cut down paper.

edit: I just confirmed with the pressman that it is more so paper dust and NOT powder that is around the edges of offset stock. My apologies for the confusion/miscommunication.

Ya gotta learn sometime, we've all been there!

 

[mglouis]

Hello overtwo,

If you backtrim your stock and wipe the freshly trimmed edges with a rag, paper dust will be greatly decreased.

-Matt Louis

 

[msaeger]

Why is the paper dusted when running through offset anyway ? I have no offset knowledge I only have heard about the paper getting powder on it when people are cursing stuff they ran on the press and are trying to insert into a digital job.

 

[mglouis]

Spray powder is used in conventional offset printing to separate the sheets to prevent ink from offsetting. Powder is merely a spacer between sheets.

- Matt Louis

 

[overtwo]

Hello overtwo,

If you backtrim your stock and wipe the freshly trimmed edges with a rag, paper dust will be greatly decreased.

-Matt Louis

Thank you.

That works if the sheet hasn't already been ran through the press. The problem I have to deal with is imprinting 170K sheets of PRE-PRINTED offset material. We do run the sheets back through the press to help eliminate spray powder but that only takes care of ~90% of the powder.

 

[mglouis]

Overtwo,

Too bad you don't have access to a load turner with aerating system such as the Albo. Press Solutions® - Albo System Pile Turners - Aerating Equipment I have no idea what the cost is. It doesn't look cheap.

Matt Louis