Pantone "Plus" Color Guides

[nhprinter]

Just wanted to vent my frustrations on the pieces of garbage that Pantone calls Pantone + Formula Guides.

I guess we now know that Pantone is going to cater to the designers rather than the printers since they now have all of the colors out of order. The amount of time we now have to waste to look up the PMS number in the back of the book, fiddle through their flimsy pages trying to look at the page numbers at the bottom of the book is rediculous.

Just who is Pantone talking to? It's bad enough that they have to justify their existence by developing "new" colors that look like the old colors, but are called something different....they now have to change something that's worked well for over 40 years.

I guess this is what happens when a company has no serious competition............

Just what is the + for anyway? More wasted time?

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

I had a race with our ink guy for who could find 185 red first I used the old guide and he had the 'new improved' guide, he gave up looking!!!

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

I use the bridge for coacted and uncoated and find them very useful to communicate with designers.

 

[CHM]

Maybe good to know.
We had a serious problem when we installed the new PANTONE + libraries in ADOBE software (Illustrator and Photoshop)
When we did he would not open Illustrator files with linked photoshopfiles that had spot colors in them.
We had to remove these libraries again to be able to work with these files.
Don't know if it is a ADOBE problem or a PANTONE.

 

[chevalier]

Maybe good to know.
We had a serious problem when we installed the new PANTONE + libraries in ADOBE software (Illustrator and Photoshop)
When we did he would not open Illustrator files with linked photoshopfiles that had spot colors in them.
We had to remove these libraries again to be able to work with these files.
Don't know if it is a ADOBE problem or a PANTONE.

This is an Adobe issue made worse by Pantone's decision to make the Pantone+ Library installer remove the old Pantone libraries. The solution is to re-add the old ones back (the installer backs them up) and have both libraries installed.

It appears everyone finds the reordering of the inks by mix formula rather than the classical by identifier number EXTREMELY annoying.

 

[michaelejahn]

well, okay, so - suggest a better alternative. What might that actually look like, everyone having a spcrophotometer ? Everyone saying "gee, give me cheesey puff orange !" Would you prefer that designers they give you RGB values ?

Pantone develops a product that is designed for designers so they can see what a Pantone color might actually look like in the real world (vs on some uncalibrated monitor iPhone or iPad)

The books have changed a LOT since 1964 - so has how we print, or better said, what line screen and what color paper we print on.

Get over it Marine. Improvise, Adapt and Overcome.

Educate your customers.

 

[gordo]

[SNIP]

Educate your customers.

I thought you were serious - until I read that last statement. LOL!

best, gordo

 

[Colorblind]

Gordo, I wonder how the "Educate your customers" concept would translate into a new RErint post

 

[michaelejahn]

i once tried and failed

i once tried and failed

I thought you were serious - until I read that last statement. LOL!

yes, you cant edge-u-ma-cate al of the peoples all of the times, but you can edge-u-ma-cate some of the peoples some of the time.

Pantone colors represented by ink on paper always look different and actually measure different when you use different ink and paper unfortunately.

I rarely meet anyone who understands that they probably do not use the same inks or the same paper as Pantone when they print, and even fewer who know what a draw down is ( or means ) or understand that like any printed product, there are variances

-- (yes, even Pantone books are actually printed by real humans ! )

http://printplanet.com/forums/color-management/17858-spot-color-delta-e

Spot Colors - Designers Toolkit from Brooklyn based award winning printer Precise Continental - http://www.precisecorp.com

 

[gordo]

Gordo, I wonder how the "Educate your customers" concept would translate into a new RErint post

Actually I've done one on the topic. It will be published in about 3 weeks from now.

best, gordo

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

well, okay, so - suggest a better alternative. What might that actually look like, everyone having a spcrophotometer ? Everyone saying "gee, give me cheesey puff orange !" Would you prefer that designers they give you RGB values ?

Pantone develops a product that is designed for designers so they can see what a Pantone color might actually look like in the real world (vs on some uncalibrated monitor iPhone or iPad)

The books have changed a LOT since 1964 - so has how we print, or better said, what line screen and what color paper we print on.

Get over it Marine. Improvise, Adapt and Overcome.

Educate your customers.

You're missing the point. Press operators are frustrated because the new books are organized chromatically instead of the traditional numerical order. Takes much longer to find the colors, and I have to agree with the press operators, the new system is cumbersome to say the least! Organizing the colors chromatically was a poor decision by Pantone, and fits the category, if it's not broke, break it!

Regards,
Todd

 

[D Ink Man]

Tint fluorescents! You gotta love those, so useful. WOW!

 

[Alith7]

You're missing the point. Press operators are frustrated because the new books are organized chromatically instead of the traditional numerical order. Takes much longer to find the colors, and I have to agree with the press operators, the new system is cumbersome to say the least! Organizing the colors chromatically was a poor decision by Pantone, and fits the category, if it's not broke, break it!

Regards,
Todd

You mean like the flop that was GOE?? What was with them trying to reinvent the wheel anyways?

On a funny side, I was talking with an ink vendor who told me a story...
He had gone to visit a customer and was walking through their shop when a pressmen called his name and chucked the new Pantone+ book at him saying "what is this crap?! I can't use this!"

the mental image of that had me giggling for ages!

but yes, I've been frustrated by the new books since they came out, if you DO NOT have decades, or even just a few years experience, I guess I can concede that the books could be helpful, and in a way make more sense, now. However, with my years of practice knowing EXACTLY where to flip to in the book...This is just DAMN annoying!

 

[rich apollo]

Educate your customers.

You can lead a horse to water, but you gotta' really muscle up to drown it...

 

[Chief_1975]

A little golden nugget of info I learned a while ago was that the LAB values distributed by Pantone for the Pantone Plus libraries where measured using X-rite's new XRGA standard.

The colours themselves haven't changed i.e. Reflex Blue is still the same Reflex Blue however there are now different LAB values out there which are only valid as a reference point for instruments that have been swapped to XRGA. I can see this causing some confusion if people are not aware!

As for the new books I like the new index system however I am not impressed by the lighter weight paper, Pantone books need to be durable!

 

[michaelejahn]

but, wait, more change !

but, wait, more change !

The colours themselves haven't changed i.e. Reflex Blue is still the same Reflex Blue

WHILE THE NAME MAY STILL BE Reflex Blue, and REFLEX BLUE - being a somewhat DARK color - may not have changed much - the LAB values have absolutely changed in most of the lighter colors !

- several times - since 1964 - as the paper has changed, and in the Color Guide, where there are CMYK breakdowns - the line screen has changed, the sequence ( I think ) may have changed too.

 

[RGPW17100]

We got our new books a week ago and I am not impressed. Maybe they should have made a press operator and a designer version. The other thing I dont like is they removed the forumla for the inks and only left the percentages. Working with a scale that deals in lb and oz going to percentages is a real pain. The light weight stock is problematic. Already had on sheet tear out of the book. I also noticed there are a lot more hickeys in the new book. My uncoated pms 280 has two hickeys in it . With the cheap paper we buy it is easy to match that color.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Biggest problem with the thin stock I find is the opacity (personally I'm content with my fan, but then I have mostly used it in education and as I mentioned before I use the bridges since it's mostly for confirming that I have the best CMYK mix for a certain colour) I agree that it could be an idea for differently arranged versions... only that would bump the price even more. (as far as % discussion goes... maybe it's time to go metric ;p )