PDF not cropping content data to frame. Total PAIN!

[Gregg]

I've just come across an issue while prepping our Fall 2011 catalog. The print vendor wants the PDFs layered and with live transparency. After we created the PDF (144 pages containing approx 500 images) we noticed, on several images, that the content of the image extended past the frame of the image. These images are book covers, and in some cases the frame is closed-up to crop out some of the book jacket flap or spine, and what we are seeing in the PDF is that cropped-out area becoming visible.

Here are some details:
InDesign CS4
Acrobat 9.2.0
Export Settings (including only what I think is relevant):
Acrobat 7 (1.6)
Create Acrobat Layers = Checked
Crop Image Data to Frames = Checked
Output = No Color Conversion

The only way I was able to consistently resolve this issue was to distill a .ps, that would work fine, but I then loose transparency and layers.

I've attached three screen-grabs.
1 showing the content extending past the frame. Filename: Acrobat_Export.png
1 showing the content nice and snug within the frame. Filename: Acrobat_Distilled.png
1 showing the content and frame in InDesign. Filename: InDesign.png

Worth noting: the cyan line that you are seeing in Catalog_Export is the spine of the book.

Needless to say, this totally sucks and we've spent hours revising pages that we thought were good to go. Any feedback on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Is there a stroke around the image? I find it hard to see what you are getting at from your images. What it may be is that you have resampling of artwork? This can sometimes cause problems as you force resampling pixels. Also live transparency does cause some difficulties as there has to be some matcing of pixels of the different pices of artwork...*there is no "snap to pixel grid" in InDesign.

Try turning off any resampling, and if it is still problematic, we may need to see a clearer image of what is the problem.

Note that if you have "image smoothing" it will be difficult to find out what is going on.

 

[Gregg]

Hi, Lukas.

I'm uploading what will hopefully be a higher quality image. I didn't realize how lousy my original images were, until after I submitted the post.

The issue, on this specific image, is on the left side. And, yes, there is a .25pt Black stroke on the image, as well as an InDesign drop shadow.

I just tried to Export the same page with no resampling, and I had the same result.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

That image was much clearer. The image in the frame is it an EPS or PDF? It seems to be a mixup in clipping paths. I have seen a similar issue, wich proved to be a defect in the placed art.
Is the stroke included in the placed image or the property of the frame in InDesign?
Is the frame in Indesign with a cyan fill?
One more thing that comes in to mind is that blend modes can be a bit freaky if there is nothing behind, if that is the case a white box behind the problem are would be able to work around the problem.

(If you would entrust me with the source image and InDesign file I'd love to get to the bottom of it.)

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Some more things:
- is the stroke set to inner, outer or centre?
- did you try to uncheck the "crop image to frame"? It may mask the image better... worth a try to find out if it is a way to implement.

Also wodering if you tried PDFx4 (2008) it would still give you live transparency, but I have found that PDFx seem to be more stable.

 

[Gregg]

Some answers to your questions:
- stroke is applied in InDesign Default Black swatch .25pt
- images are flattened TIFs
- there are no clipping paths, alpha channels or the like in the image
- I have tried "Crop Content Data to Frame" both checked and unchecked, both give the same result
- I have tried a None fill and a Paper fill, both give the same result
- I tried PDFx4, same result

 

[CHM]

As Lukas said, would be useful the have the Indesign file and links to dig in deeper.
you only need to save a part of the file.

 

[Gregg]

I tried getting the file down below 5mb (per attachment limit), and I couldn't. Even as a single page with a 100dpi link. I then just copied the image to a new document and when I made a PDF it was fine. So, now I need to figure out what it is about this original document that is causing the problem.

 

[KaraJoy]

Try exporting your InDesign file to an InDesign Interchange (INX) file. Then open the INX file in InDesign. Could be your original ID file has gathered too much excess bits that's messing with it. Exporting to an INX file cleans all the junk out. At least that's what I've been told. It normally works for me when strange things start to happen.

It's worth a shot especially with so many pages you would have to remake.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Hmm so you got it fixed by copying data to a new document... glad you managed to get the job out, still worrying why it happens. Seems like we are in need of an InDesign document normaliser to verify data in documents that missbehave, but what is most worrying is that those errors can happen…*on the other hand that is why we have customer sign offs on PDF's and/or hardcopy proofs

 

[Gregg]

Yes, when I copied the image from into a new doc and Exported, using the same settings, I did not have the same problem.

I wasn't able to do that for the entire catalog, so I ended up Distilling .PS files, which worked fine.

I've been totally swapmed at work, so I've had to put this problem on the back burner, but I hope to revisit is soon. I know it's going to come up with our Spring 2012 catalog (which using the same master file).

Thanks for all of your help.