Picture Framing on Sheet Fed Presses
- Thread starter D Ink Man
- Start date
One of the reason for picture framing can be Hickey removal system (Vario on our machine) because he runs dirtier because speed reduction of the dampening form roller
on the plate ,the problem we have.Other reasons may be bad roller setting or form rollers oscillating on the plate,or bad exposure of the plate.
on the plate ,the problem we have.Other reasons may be bad roller setting or form rollers oscillating on the plate,or bad exposure of the plate.
We get this effect more in summer that winter, strange but pressroom humidity seems to have an effect on picture framing. You're correct that it is not a big problem until you get a misregistered sheet stuck on all that ink, ugh! It is a chemical problem, but more sensitive to ambient temp and humidity in our plant than damping conductivity
We've just seen excellent results in a change in fountain solution here... We run in an un-air-conditioned pressroom, and as summer approaches here in Brisbane we are seeing pressroom temps ranging between 20 to 38 degrees C, and if this summer is like all the previous ones I've worked here that range will be around mid 20s to low 40s from late December through till early March. Obviously, that's far from ideal for a pressroom.... But it is what it is and we must work around it.
As the temps began to climb the picture framing issue we've had has gradually worsened, with heavy build up in the "frame" necessitating more blanket washes, and slight mis-feeds creating instant tear-offs and all the other associated headaches that come with excessive ink build up. Over the last month or so we had seen tinting showing up at an alarming rate (call it 5% @ 10,000 sheets) initially in the cyan deck, but on every unit before long.
We tried different inks, plate batches, cleaned technotrans and refreshed chemicals, the plate processor chems were also refreshed and the CTP laser strengths altered... All to no avail. I tested the fount on a processed plate with no discernible plate surface damage showing... And we were left scratching our heads. However, new CMY sets every 50k (maximum!) was causing the boss much grief in half million run jobs...
So we trialled a new fount, going from the then current Bottcher S-3006 (+7% IPA) to our new best friend, ABC/Allied pressroom products "Greenfount" (still running IPA- necessary in this heat).
INSTANT RESULT FTW!!! Straight away we have blankets and back cylinders that are 99% clean, zero tinting (this set has approx 200,000 impressions on it) and to top it off a cleaner, sharper dot that's improved print quality dramatically: we are using less ink, seeing very little piling, and in general it's made my job so much easier. We still can't believe the improvement.
We haven't changed anything else: roller strips, blankets etc are untouched prior to the new fount... So obviously the improvement is a result of nothing more than finding the right chemistry to suit your press and pressroom conditions.
Hope this can help out any Printers fighting this issue
As the temps began to climb the picture framing issue we've had has gradually worsened, with heavy build up in the "frame" necessitating more blanket washes, and slight mis-feeds creating instant tear-offs and all the other associated headaches that come with excessive ink build up. Over the last month or so we had seen tinting showing up at an alarming rate (call it 5% @ 10,000 sheets) initially in the cyan deck, but on every unit before long.
We tried different inks, plate batches, cleaned technotrans and refreshed chemicals, the plate processor chems were also refreshed and the CTP laser strengths altered... All to no avail. I tested the fount on a processed plate with no discernible plate surface damage showing... And we were left scratching our heads. However, new CMY sets every 50k (maximum!) was causing the boss much grief in half million run jobs...
So we trialled a new fount, going from the then current Bottcher S-3006 (+7% IPA) to our new best friend, ABC/Allied pressroom products "Greenfount" (still running IPA- necessary in this heat).
INSTANT RESULT FTW!!! Straight away we have blankets and back cylinders that are 99% clean, zero tinting (this set has approx 200,000 impressions on it) and to top it off a cleaner, sharper dot that's improved print quality dramatically: we are using less ink, seeing very little piling, and in general it's made my job so much easier. We still can't believe the improvement.
We haven't changed anything else: roller strips, blankets etc are untouched prior to the new fount... So obviously the improvement is a result of nothing more than finding the right chemistry to suit your press and pressroom conditions.
Hope this can help out any Printers fighting this issue
So far this shift (3rd day of running new fount) I've put 75,000 on the floor and washed the back cylinders out of habit: they were damn near spotless. Blankets look great all over, the only ink on them is image temperature is currently 36.5 degrees C, and aside from a technotrans that's working hard to keep it all cool, it's been an issue free run. Generally printing throws enough little curve balls to keep you occupied all shift... But in telling you it's nice to have one particularly irritating problem seemingly squared away
temperature is currently 36.5 degrees C, and aside from a technotrans that's working hard to keep it all cool, it's been an issue free run. Generally printing throws enough little curve balls to keep you occupied all shift... But in telling you it's nice to have one particularly irritating problem seemingly squared away John Arneson
Well-known member
Gaz,
Sounds great! What percent fountain solution are you running and could you tell what brand of plate you are running?
Thanks John
Sounds great! What percent fountain solution are you running and could you tell what brand of plate you are running?
Thanks John
mike carlisle
Member
GAZ,
Glad to hear that the ABC/Allied "Greenfount" solved picture framing! Has the "greenfount" had any effect on the problem of plate blinding (due to calcium carbonate) specificaly on the Magenta plate. I have had to wash up M unit & rinse with calcium eliminator - change plates ect. to "Just get on with it". I have changed fountain solutions, ink mfg., used ink additives, different blanket compositions, with only limited success. I am in North America so the "Greenfount" may not be available without twisting a Sales Rep. arm. I checked AlliedChemical web site and the "Greenfount" wasn't shown. Of course the problem realy is with the paper & plates management approves (isn't the cheepist the best?). I can grumble all day long but the bottom line drives the purchase of big dollar items. "Paid by the hour" is a poor attitude and I dont want that. After all pressmen love shutting down to fix problens.
Mike "ears to hear" Carlisle
Glad to hear that the ABC/Allied "Greenfount" solved picture framing! Has the "greenfount" had any effect on the problem of plate blinding (due to calcium carbonate) specificaly on the Magenta plate. I have had to wash up M unit & rinse with calcium eliminator - change plates ect. to "Just get on with it". I have changed fountain solutions, ink mfg., used ink additives, different blanket compositions, with only limited success. I am in North America so the "Greenfount" may not be available without twisting a Sales Rep. arm. I checked AlliedChemical web site and the "Greenfount" wasn't shown. Of course the problem realy is with the paper & plates management approves (isn't the cheepist the best?). I can grumble all day long but the bottom line drives the purchase of big dollar items. "Paid by the hour" is a poor attitude and I dont want that. After all pressmen love shutting down to fix problens.
Mike "ears to hear" Carlisle
Cornishpastythighs
Well-known member
GAZ
Its good to hear someone solve a problem and share the results with the rest of us. I am interested to hear more of this Fountain Solution, is it a one step? Does your supplier know if it is available elsewhere but maybe under a different name. What is your dosage and do you run an RO system. Thanks for sharing.
Cornish
Its good to hear someone solve a problem and share the results with the rest of us. I am interested to hear more of this Fountain Solution, is it a one step? Does your supplier know if it is available elsewhere but maybe under a different name. What is your dosage and do you run an RO system. Thanks for sharing.
Cornish
Alois Senefelder
Well-known member
Abc
Abc
Hello Cornish,
I used ABC/Allied pressroom products during the 1970s , they are still available in the UK
Google - abcchem.com
Regards, Alois
Abc
Hello Cornish,
I used ABC/Allied pressroom products during the 1970s , they are still available in the UK
Google - abcchem.com
Regards, Alois
ABC Allied
ABC Allied
Hi All
Gaz, thanks for sharing our success with everyone!! as a consumable sales person we try and help out where we can and to get a sale is a bonus but it's great to be able to sort out problems as well.
We have recently taken on the ABC distributorship here in Australia which has been a great result for us. I have experience with their range from the UK and was delighted to secure the products for us here.
The Green Fount is a great product and comes in a hard and soft water version and is designed to run with alcohol, but at a minimum. As you will all know alcohol is itself a solvent and will break the ink down quite aggressively, especially some of the weaker newer vegetable oil based inks. This in turn leads to it being emulsified in the fount solution which can then tint on the plate and or blanket which then can transfer onto the Impression/back cylinder where combined with residue from the paper (clay fillers, glues etc) can cause big problems. The best way to reduce this problem is to find a compatible fount solution, run as little alcohol as possible and keep your fount solution as clean as possible for as long as possible.
I have been using an additional fount filter system for about 10 years now from a company called PALL (from the USA). they are expensive but in the long term they save time, effort and above all money because the system stays clean which will help with all kinds of printing issues. This system is available through us here in Australia, Pomeroy in the UK and I'm sure there are other dealers throughout the world, but if you are interested let me know and I will help if I can.
ABC Allied have several new alcohol free founts such as All Star, High Fidelity and the latest product called Titan which will be freely available soon which all run very well with the modern inks on most presses, normally without having to replace rollers. I will keep you posted on the future successes.
ABC Allied
Hi All
Gaz, thanks for sharing our success with everyone!! as a consumable sales person we try and help out where we can and to get a sale is a bonus but it's great to be able to sort out problems as well.
We have recently taken on the ABC distributorship here in Australia which has been a great result for us. I have experience with their range from the UK and was delighted to secure the products for us here.
The Green Fount is a great product and comes in a hard and soft water version and is designed to run with alcohol, but at a minimum. As you will all know alcohol is itself a solvent and will break the ink down quite aggressively, especially some of the weaker newer vegetable oil based inks. This in turn leads to it being emulsified in the fount solution which can then tint on the plate and or blanket which then can transfer onto the Impression/back cylinder where combined with residue from the paper (clay fillers, glues etc) can cause big problems. The best way to reduce this problem is to find a compatible fount solution, run as little alcohol as possible and keep your fount solution as clean as possible for as long as possible.
I have been using an additional fount filter system for about 10 years now from a company called PALL (from the USA). they are expensive but in the long term they save time, effort and above all money because the system stays clean which will help with all kinds of printing issues. This system is available through us here in Australia, Pomeroy in the UK and I'm sure there are other dealers throughout the world, but if you are interested let me know and I will help if I can.
ABC Allied have several new alcohol free founts such as All Star, High Fidelity and the latest product called Titan which will be freely available soon which all run very well with the modern inks on most presses, normally without having to replace rollers. I will keep you posted on the future successes.
Hi Cornish
Should be available in the UK (I am originally from UK) through a dealer in London I think, but I'll find out for sure.
They should also have the following products that if used as a three step will improve your rollers no end; Dynakleen (brilliant liquid roller cleaner really good for colour changes), Relief (de-calcifier) and Blast (rejuvenator and cleaner which will fluff up the rollers and blankets to their natural nap again).
Hope that will help, let me know??
Should be available in the UK (I am originally from UK) through a dealer in London I think, but I'll find out for sure.
They should also have the following products that if used as a three step will improve your rollers no end; Dynakleen (brilliant liquid roller cleaner really good for colour changes), Relief (de-calcifier) and Blast (rejuvenator and cleaner which will fluff up the rollers and blankets to their natural nap again).
Hope that will help, let me know??
Coastline
Member
Hi all,
As Jools1968 said, the ABC Allied products including Green Fount are indeed available in the UK; we are the exclusive UK distributors for the ABC Allied product range.
There is further information as well as the MSDS for Green Fount on our website.
If you need any more information, just let me know.
As Jools1968 said, the ABC Allied products including Green Fount are indeed available in the UK; we are the exclusive UK distributors for the ABC Allied product range.
There is further information as well as the MSDS for Green Fount on our website.
If you need any more information, just let me know.
Coastline
Member
Hi Lukew,
Yes, it will run fine with poly plates.
% IPA really depends on the machine, but 5-10% is the most common range.
Yes, it will run fine with poly plates.
% IPA really depends on the machine, but 5-10% is the most common range.
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