Pigment Percentages in Offset Lithograhic Inks

[D Ink Man]

Does anyone know the normal or average amount of pigment in an O.L.I.?

This could potentially be a wonderful topic for discussion, debate and education for all to participate.


That is why we hopefully come here to Mr. White's generously provided

D Ink Man

 

[cementary]

No Title

I hardly can imagine how can one talk about normal or average amount of pigment in offset lithographic inks since it depends on variety of factors. For instance, what oli are you talking about – CS, HS, SF or maybe SH for tin printing? And what pigment exactly?
But, ok here you go HS typical formulation.

 

[D Ink Man]

Thank you cementary, but none of that data you provide shows 'pigment' percentage.

D

 

[cementary]

30 for yellow by mass, no?

 

[cementary]

No Title

Ok, if u ask here you go sf double venicle

 

[D Ink Man]

What is an organic pigment cementary? Inorganic pigment too?

D

 

[cementary]

No Title

What is an organic pigment cementary? Inorganic pigment too?
D

you need exact pigment? here you go too
inorganic – not exactly

 

[Deleted member 16349]

What is an organic pigment cementary? Inorganic pigment too?

D

If you grow an "organic pigment" without pesticides would it then be an Organic "organic pigment"?

 

[cementary]

If you grow an "organic pigment" without pesticides would it then be an Organic "organic pigment"?

It would be very eco-friendly pigment, especially recommended for your food packaging production bla-blablabla-blablablabalalal

 

[D Ink Man]

Things are heating up nicely!

D

 

[Cold]

Organic Pigment simply means it contains a carbon atom on the molecular chain. This is important to us humans as the presence of carbon allows our bodies to process and dispel of the chemical, vs chromium yellow or moly orange that I dumped as a kid that will still be present in my body. But D Ink Man you know all this. Just as you know there is no normal pigment percentage in offset printing inks. You know that your black will contain more or less Black 7 than mine. If your toning with PB61 is it 2, 3, or 6 even. Heck, none of my own blacks carry the same pigment load. Then we can move on to bases all being different loads and Rubine differing vs process "magenta"...

So I guess I have to ask, where are you heading with this, so we can cut to the chase.

 

[D Ink Man]

Organic Pigment simply means it contains a carbon atom on the molecular chain. This is important to us humans as the presence of carbon allows our bodies to process and dispel of the chemical, vs chromium yellow or moly orange that I dumped as a kid that will still be present in my body. But D Ink Man you know all this. Just as you know there is no normal pigment percentage in offset printing inks. You know that your black will contain more or less Black 7 than mine. If your toning with PB61 is it 2, 3, or 6 even. Heck, none of my own blacks carry the same pigment load. Then we can move on to bases all being different loads and Rubine differing vs process "magenta"...

So I guess I have to ask, where are you heading with this, so we can cut to the chase.[

/QUOTE]

We are headed to long forgotten and entrenched knowledges that we both are totally familiar with. It's in our veins and will not be coming out.

However as we head out, move forward and hopefully progress; we both can have the opportunity to share our know how and experiences with all the planet that prints in an effort to educate and provide understanding for the normal laymen that has to mess with this greasy kid stuff on a regular basis. It is the least we can do.

I understand that was a previous long sentence, but I feel it was worth it. You know me friend.

D Ink Man

 

[gordo]

Organic Pigment simply means it contains a carbon atom on the molecular chain. This is important to us humans as the presence of carbon allows our bodies to process and dispel of the chemical, vs chromium yellow or moly orange that I dumped as a kid that will still be present in my body. But D Ink Man you know all this. Just as you know there is no normal pigment percentage in offset printing inks. You know that your black will contain more or less Black 7 than mine. If your toning with PB61 is it 2, 3, or 6 even. Heck, none of my own blacks carry the same pigment load. Then we can move on to bases all being different loads and Rubine differing vs process "magenta"...

So I guess I have to ask, where are you heading with this, so we can cut to the chase.[

/QUOTE]

We are headed to long forgotten and entrenched knowledges that we both are totally familiar with. It's in our veins and will not be coming out.

However as we head out, move forward and hopefully progress; we both can have the opportunity to share our know how and experiences with all the planet that prints in an effort to educate and provide understanding for the normal laymen that has to mess with this greasy kid stuff on a regular basis. It is the least we can do.

I understand that was a previous long sentence, but I feel it was worth it. You know me friend.

D Ink Man

If I want to do extended process color printing -e.g. CMYK plus Orange, Green, and Violet - are there any specific instructions that I should provide my ink supplier with?

 

[engin]

Hi everybody,

Depending on the color strength these are the ranges for offset inks:

Yellow 9- 15 %
Magenta

 

[engin]

Magenta 15 - 20 %
Cyan 14 - 19 %

and Black which is from carbon Black 20 - 24 % and depending on the condition, 5 to 10 10 % Reflex blue flush

The pigments are dry grind percentages.

Engin

 

[engin]

Yellow is having pigment Y174 or Y13 with very small amounts of orange toner
Magenta is having Red 57:1 pigment and could be blueish type or a mixture of blueish and yellowish type
Cyan is having B15:3 pigments

all three are organic pigments, you can get

and Black is BK7

You can get all the chemical structures of the pigments in this address:

https://books.google.com.tr/books/about/The_Printing_Ink_Manual.html?id=2PwKTqO5dioC&redir_esc=y


Regards,

Engin

 

[engin]

All the percentages I've given are for oil based ( either mineral oil based together with vegi oils or purely vegitable based oil systems) conventional sheet fed inks.
For UV offset inks , the percentages starts from higher numbers of the ranges that I've written and upper limits exceed sometimes 22-23 % for colors therefore they tend to stay very lasy in the ink duct because of so high amounts of pigment %'s and lower capacity of pigment wetting characteristics of the UV curing raw materials ( I mean acrylates) resulting in poor flow .

Regards,

Engin

 

[D Ink Man]

If I want to do extended process color printing -e.g. CMYK plus Orange, Green, and Violet - are there any specific instructions that I should provide my ink supplier with?

Yes sir, Rotation. The number one thing that needs to be provided.

D

 

[Cold]

If I want to do extended process color printing -e.g. CMYK plus Orange, Green, and Violet - are there any specific instructions that I should provide my ink supplier with?

Hello Gordo,

3 areas I would want to see focused on:

1. Tack Sequence - It is a trick to fit 7 colors into a tack range, it is important to tighten up the window of tolerances ie T -15 +/- .5 is too large a window with 7 colors

2. Strength - One of the great aspects of 7 color to me is the 3 trap solid. They look beautiful. My experience is densities are run lower across the board and "normal" strength inks can cause issues. A weaker set will more than likely fit the system better.

3. Transfer and trap - High transfer inks are the way to go in my opinion. Forget dot gain, take care of that in prepress.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it is useful.

Best,
Cold

 

[Cold]

Organic Pigment simply means it contains a carbon atom on the molecular chain. This is important to us humans as the presence of carbon allows our bodies to process and dispel of the chemical, vs chromium yellow or moly orange that I dumped as a kid that will still be present in my body. But D Ink Man you know all this. Just as you know there is no normal pigment percentage in offset printing inks. You know that your black will contain more or less Black 7 than mine. If your toning with PB61 is it 2, 3, or 6 even. Heck, none of my own blacks carry the same pigment load. Then we can move on to bases all being different loads and Rubine differing vs process "magenta"...

So I guess I have to ask, where are you heading with this, so we can cut to the chase.[

/QUOTE]

We are headed to long forgotten and entrenched knowledges that we both are totally familiar with. It's in our veins and will not be coming out.

However as we head out, move forward and hopefully progress; we both can have the opportunity to share our know how and experiences with all the planet that prints in an effort to educate and provide understanding for the normal laymen that has to mess with this greasy kid stuff on a regular basis. It is the least we can do.

I understand that was a previous long sentence, but I feel it was worth it. You know me friend.

D Ink Man

Aye. and "It's in our veins and will not be coming out." This is all to literally true lol.