PLATES: chemicals OR processless ?

[Dario]

Does anyone know about the spread level of CTP Processless Thermal Plates over old Process Plates??
My boss keeps saying the old kind is adopted more than the new ones, but I disagree since I have to clean the developer machine!!

 

[wonderings]

No idea, but life is soooooooooooooooooo much better with processless plates. We use Kodak Sonora XP plates and have been very happy with them. Image the plate and put it on press, just that simple. It saves a lot of time as well, so maybe your boss will appreciate you being able to put your energy it something more productive.

I can't even imagine going back to all the chemicals and countless hours spent cleaning the units. Even when we used Presstek anthem pro plates which used a water bath became a headache to keep clean.

 

[DCurry]

I second that! Life is easier with processless plates. Also, it removing the chemicals removes another variable when trying to troubleshoot a press problem. One fewer reason to point the finger at prepress!

 

[cementary]

Agree with previous speakers - we've switched to sonora and we're happy as hell.
And back to the ts question - I think that processless are not spreaded much. Kodak believe that by 2019 30% of their plates gonna be processless. So I think today's spreadness is about 15-20% most

 

[theShaft]

Fuji LHPJ is the best plate out there - hands down. Unfortunately, you have to process it and clean the machine regularly.

We switched to the Afga TU (from the LHPJ) as a step towards processless plates. There is a gum that clears and seals the plate so it's ready for when the pressroom is.

You need to look at more than just the processor when determining the best solution for your company. Ask yourself, how long do these plates sit before being hung on the press? Processless plates have a shelf life once exposed and will not open up after a period of time (each manufacturer has a different scope of time).

Afga TU is getting the job done for us but not without compromise. We had to lower our typical line screen to meet the technological limit of the plate and the pressroom needs to take a bit more care when handling as these are not the bulletproof LHPJ's.

Ask lots of questions from all vendors and review your processes to ensure a workable fit.

Remember, you cleaning the processor is where all the crap ends up. Without a processor, it ends up in the press somewhere - and not just the water!

 

[cementary]

Well I can say the same on Electra xd from kodak - brilliant plate with topmost characteristics. Unfortunately most of them are for long runs and 10m staccato which is rarely needed nowadays. With shorter runs, 20m staccato capable sonora is cheaper in total, faster in output and easier to handle. Lightfastness is a problem mostly on paper. We've made a simple test - put imaged plate under direct light (LEDs) and print it after 24 hours without problems. In our production environment most of imaged plates are printed within 24 hours. And for those few which aren't we have some paper to cover them. Actually the package paper
From press side we don't see problems also. And we have lots of them - 4 coldset and 8 sheetfed. So I think it's pretty much overrated too.
don't get me wrong - honestly I would love to go back to Electra xd. Making everything right with best avialabel consumables, good old times. But it doesn't worth that, I mean 99% of the jobs we print

 

[Manafaith]

No idea, but life is soooooooooooooooooo much better with processes plates. We use Kodak Sonora XP plates and have been very happy with them. Image the plate and put it on press, just that simple. It saves a lot of time as well, so maybe your boss will appreciate you being able to put your energy it something more productive.

I can't even imagine going back to all the chemicals and countless hours spent cleaning the units. Even when we used Presstek anthem pro plates which used a water bath became a headache to keep clean.

AMEN!!!! I do not miss Developer and gum one bit and many of the variables you get with that system

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Manafaith,


....... well you don't know how the "Chemistry of Lithography" works, all you have done is passed any Plate problems onto the press. !!


Regards, Alois

 

[rafaqat]

Is it true hypothesis that process free plates contaminate dempening system ?

 

[Dario]

Is it true hypothesis that process free plates contaminate dempening system ?

As far as I know this is true.
Processless plates could contamite the inks OR the fountain solution - that depends on the technology.
For example, Kodak Electramax contaminate the fountain solution while Fuji Pro-T contaminate the inks.

 

[wonderings]

Our Pressman has not complained about any contamination since switching to the Kodak Sonora plates. If there is anything happening it is nothing major that bothers or adds any real work load to our pressmen that has caused him to complain and raise issue.

 

[Manafaith]

From what I have seen I would agree with Wonderings. The majority of the emulsion appears to be pulled off onto the Stock. There is a little contamination that happens but the operators haven't complained once they got the developing down to a Science. (We run Fuji Plates)

 

[yachtsman]

The emulsion does not go to the water system in large quantities. Also chemical plates are also rubber and rubber goes to water in an unknown quantity. We have been using procesless Thermal direct / Sonora for 10 years, never had problems with water. The problems are with Ipagsa procesless. The manufacturer determines that the water must be changed after 800m2 plates

 

[Candy Wang]

Does anyone know about the spread level of CTP Processless Thermal Plates over old Process Plates??
My boss keeps saying the old kind is adopted more than the new ones, but I disagree since I have to clean the developer machine!!

As far as I know as a supplier of processless plate, all our Canada customers and parts of USA customers turn to processless plate in the past 2 years. Our European Customers decrease their order quantity of chemistry plate but turn to processless plates of non-Chinese brands.

 

[Manprint]

Isnt it possible to "develop" processless plates out of the press, with automated plate developers? -instead of chemical baths to water-

 

[Manafaith]

Yes.... It has been a few years but if I remember correctly you can use gum, could be wrong about that tho, like I said its been a while

 

[Dario]

Isnt it possible to "develop" processless plates out of the press, with automated plate developers? -instead of chemical baths to water-

A developer machine? Why? To not contaminate the press inks and/or fountain solution?

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Gentlemen,


The contributors to this topic - display a woeful lack of knowledge, the gist of the replies say nothing of the merits of the plates,

but are euphoric about not having to clean the plate processor!!!

Salient Points. D. o. P. versus Lo Chem Plates.

1) D. o. P. the Photo Polymer coating in the Non - Image areas become Soluble after exposure, so can be removed via bath of Aqueous Developer Solution instead of the press.

2) The merits of Lo Chem Pates are superior to D.o.P. Plates.


A challenge --- should you wish to participate !!!!!

a) Printing Trial, using D.o. P. versus Lo Chem. USING only H2O (Plain Water) F.S. see how many sheets you can produce without problems ????


Regards, Alois

 

[jaison]

Absolutely it is possible to develop the process-less / process-free plates outside the machine. A manual wash / with Azura COU with gum could work.

 

[Dario]

Absolutely it is possible to develop the process-less / process-free plates outside the machine. A manual wash / with Azura COU with gum could work.

Are you talking about this?
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voppi_YBHL8