Polyester plates printed on Laser printers

[PrintingSupply]

Regarding Poly plates

Regarding Poly plates

Although plate manufacturers will say that their products will work on many printers and copiers, in fact, the only printer we've found to work consistently well in the HP5000 and HP5100, both no longer being made but both still readily available for a few hundred dollars as used and reconditioned machines. (I can get one for you through a company that reconditions them if you are interested.)

As for the plates, the most known brand is probably the Hurst SmartPlate, which we sell, but it is exactly the same plate as those sold by other names. I'd recommend the DAA Genie Polyester II Laser Plate which is the best bargain. They come in a variety of sizes, 100 per box. Samples are available. If you want to try them, give me a call (1-877-427-5546). That's the toll-free number to my company, Printing Equipment & Supply, in Minnesota.

There are also options, just to make things a little more confusing, including Xante and Okidata products. Again, I either sell this stuff or know a bit about them. Both entail considerably more outlay at the beginning because you are buying new machines, but both are specifically made to do plates for the printing industry and thus work a little bit better and come with some warranties.

It comes down to budget. But why not try the HP first. A lot of people use these machines successfully after they've learned the tricks and idiosyncracies of these machines. I have tip sheet which spells some of these out, if you are anyone else cares to have one. Let me know. Larry, Printing Equipment & Supply

 

[TroutFisher]

Xante PlateMaker 4

Xante PlateMaker 4

Larry is right. I used my Xante PlateMaker 4 for years successfully when I figured out the idiosyncracies. It's the only source I used for poly plates for running on my AB Dick 9850. I got out of the business but do have my PlateMaker 4 for sale. It works great. If you want to get into printing or have an alternative to Silver Master plates with little investment, this is the way to go! I had my best results with the Xante Myriad 2 polyester plates. What I liked about it is there are no chemicals, and the cost per plate was inexpensive. I purchased my PlateMaker 4 new in 2004. If you're interested in buying my PlateMaker you can reach me trout at streamsideprinting.com. Asking $700.00 OBO

 

[RobWoodfin]

I am trying to print a poly laser plate on my KM BizHub 6500 but am having no luck figuring out how to set the line resolution to 85 line. I run a Ryobi 2800 CDXL with a Crestline and a compressible blanket, so I can't carry a anything much finer. Would appreciate any help you folks might offer.

 

[Chief_1975]

I am a new coming to polyster plates, reading through the posts in this thread I am right in saying that the quality is not sufficient for colour critical tone work & tight registration ? i.e. typical consumer packaging multi colour litho offset printing ?

 

[graficworx]

I am trying to print a poly laser plate on my KM BizHub 6500 but am having no luck figuring out how to set the line resolution to 85 line. I run a Ryobi 2800 CDXL with a Crestline and a compressible blanket, so I can't carry a anything much finer. Would appreciate any help you folks might offer.

From the specs I can find online you BizHub is only 600dpi, so it can't do 85 lpi. It can only do a max of 60 lpi. If you need more information on dpi vs lpi I have an article on this on my website at Graficworx - Honolulu, Hawaii

 

[graficworx]

I am a new coming to polyster plates, reading through the posts in this thread I am right in saying that the quality is not sufficient for colour critical tone work & tight registration ? i.e. typical consumer packaging multi colour litho offset printing ?

Your assumption is correct. Depending on the device used to output the plate, a typical line screen is 60 lpi from a 600x600 dpi printer, and about 90 from a 1200x1200 dpi printer. Depending on the press, you can do halftone work for spot colors, but process work is not recommended as the plates do stretch during a run. The stretch depends on your press's clamping mechanism, roller pressures, plate tension, and blanket pressure. Too high of pressure, and the plates will stretch considerably. I've ran 10k single color runs with no problem, maybe an 1/16" stretch on a AB Dick 360 with a Kompac.

I have used the plates to do names or other line work on top of pre-printed shells, and they work great for that. If you want to try some them, I recommend the Hurst SmartIO, and make sure to always prep them with the laser etch. I run a regular metal plate fountain solution on our 3302 with Crestlines, and a little acohol sub helps them wet nicely. If you have to clean the plate for any reason, use some fountain solution at about 10:1, and the plates should clean right up. If you have to clean the blanket, afterwards wipe it with the fountain solution as well, and make sure the plate gets wiped with fountain again before starting up. That should solve most your problems.

 

[voltage]

I run a regular metal plate fountain solution on our 3302 with Crestlines, and a little acohol sub helps them wet nicely.

I've never heard of anyone using alcohol in their fountain solution to use with laser plates, I thought alcohol was only preferred by some using metal plates. I'm very intrigued to hear you say that alcohol can be helpful rather than causing problems with laser plates. Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I've got a Multi 1250w and am using laser plates currently with an unlabled "Laser plate fountain solution" that I got from ultrafineonline.com that dillutes 1:49 (I think it might be made by Technova/Novadom). It says 1:49 on the bottle but also says you can use 20 to 30 ml per liter. I've been doing 20ml per liter because it seemed like any higher was making it wash out the image. What kind of alcohol would I add and how much? What effect does it have? Does it help keep the plate from going dry quickly?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really interested in this.

Oh and on the issue of plate stretching and registration, I've been told that you can just use a little spray adhesive on the back of the plate and it won't be going anywhere while printing.

 

[OkiTech]

Hi guys. Just printed 20k of 2/2 menues on Xante plates made on Oki ES-3640 mfp, same basically engine as C9800 or Xante Ilumina. Had to change black plate @ 15K as had lots of halftones but solids lasted beautifully, fused only once.
To someone who had a early breakdown issue - If you know that your plate fused properly please check your Plate to blanket pressure.

 

[graficworx]

I've never heard of anyone using alcohol in their fountain solution to use with laser plates, I thought alcohol was only preferred by some using metal plates. I'm very intrigued to hear you say that alcohol can be helpful rather than causing problems with laser plates. Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I've got a Multi 1250w and am using laser plates currently with an unlabled "Laser plate fountain solution" that I got from ultrafineonline.com that dillutes 1:49 (I think it might be made by Technova/Novadom). It says 1:49 on the bottle but also says you can use 20 to 30 ml per liter. I've been doing 20ml per liter because it seemed like any higher was making it wash out the image. What kind of alcohol would I add and how much? What effect does it have? Does it help keep the plate from going dry quickly?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really interested in this.

Oh and on the issue of plate stretching and registration, I've been told that you can just use a little spray adhesive on the back of the plate and it won't be going anywhere while printing.

I run Accell FC1000 fountain solution, I can't really tell you how much, I go by the color, but its on the strong side. I think it recommends 4-8 ounces per gallon or something, and I run the higher number. As for the Alcohol Sub, I will have to look for the brand. I only use the Alcohol Sub if I see some "toning" (the whole page will retain a little ink vs what you see under the gripper margin). This is on my 3302 with Crestlines. On an AB Dick 360 with a Kompac I don't generally need the Alcohol Sub, but on that press I set the Kompac up to run perfect for the laser plates. I didn't re-gap the Crestline for the poly plates, as I generally use metal on the 3302. The Alcohol Sub seems to help it keep from drying out. Thats the worst thing a laser plate can do, its start to dry on startup, thats why I recommend wiping it with fountain solution right before startup, because if it starts to dry even a little bit, and the ink forms hit it, its gonna be a inky mess really fast. I learned the hard way that a laser plate is way less forgiving than a metal plate. Another thing you can do if it starts toning bad is to re-clean the plate again with the laser prep/etch.

Hurst also makes a metal re-inforcing strip for pin-bar presses that you punch through, and that will prevent most stretch. On a clamp press like the 3302 it should only stretch if your plate to blanket pressure is too high.

 

[voltage]

I run Accell FC1000 fountain solution, I can't really tell you how much, I go by the color, but its on the strong side. I think it recommends 4-8 ounces per gallon or something, and I run the higher number. As for the Alcohol Sub, I will have to look for the brand. I only use the Alcohol Sub if I see some "toning" (the whole page will retain a little ink vs what you see under the gripper margin). This is on my 3302 with Crestlines. On an AB Dick 360 with a Kompac I don't generally need the Alcohol Sub, but on that press I set the Kompac up to run perfect for the laser plates. I didn't re-gap the Crestline for the poly plates, as I generally use metal on the 3302. The Alcohol Sub seems to help it keep from drying out. Thats the worst thing a laser plate can do, its start to dry on startup, thats why I recommend wiping it with fountain solution right before startup, because if it starts to dry even a little bit, and the ink forms hit it, its gonna be a inky mess really fast. I learned the hard way that a laser plate is way less forgiving than a metal plate. Another thing you can do if it starts toning bad is to re-clean the plate again with the laser prep/etch.

Thanks for the reply!

Hmm, okay, so you're refraining from using the alcohol sub on the Kompac for the most part. I neglected to mention that I have a Kompac on my Multi 1250. What did you do to "set the Kompac up to run perfect for laser plates"? I don't know if there would necessarily be a difference between how a Kompac runs on an AB Dick v.s. Multi. Thanks again.

 

[graficworx]

Thanks for the reply!

Hmm, okay, so you're refraining from using the alcohol sub on the Kompac for the most part. I neglected to mention that I have a Kompac on my Multi 1250. What did you do to "set the Kompac up to run perfect for laser plates"? I don't know if there would necessarily be a difference between how a Kompac runs on an AB Dick v.s. Multi. Thanks again.

You need to adjust the Kompac mounts so you get a good strip on the plate, since the plates are thinner than traditional metal plates, and the Kompac was most likely installed for metal. I ran a stripe about a quarter inch wide or so. Pacific Products has the alcohol-sub I use, its called Stopz-It, product # 25000. They also have a great laser cleaner/etch Laser Clean EX # 15160. They also recently introduced a fountain solution, although I haven't tried it, but I'm going to look into it. They make some really good stuff. Their cyldiner cleaner will remove dried on ink off impression/plate cylinders with very little elbow grease.

Press Room Products

 

[smeragrafix]

Polyester plates from printers

Polyester plates from printers

Hey guys,

would like to know if the hp 8150 laserjet can make polyester plates the same way as the 5100.

I require around 15-20 polyester plates a day on my multilith 1962mc offset.
We use poly-plates made on hp 5200...or canon ir400 in india.
Am looking forward to buy a laserjet for inhouse plate making.

Anyone with some good ideas?

Xante, kimosetter, etc. Are not sold or servicable in india and hence out of question / consideration.

Regards,
miheer.

 

[Tres]

Would you please send your solutions page to me. Thanks
[email protected]

 

[GeorgeHB]

poly plate/hp 5000 tip sheet

poly plate/hp 5000 tip sheet

@PrintingSupply:
Please send one of your sheets to me at: [email protected]. We are trying these plates but not having a lot of luck. They are toning like mad! I'm talking with Jeff from Hurst Chemical, trying to find a way to make them work, but if your help sheet will make it work, I'll once again be a happy prepress guy!
GeorgeHB

 

[OkiTech]

Hi George. Let me try to help you. What is the history of your printer and which one do you use? HP5000/5100?
I have posted about this before - the printer must be in perfect shape, i.e. Your toner cartridge better off be OEM HP, Fuser must be perfect, transfer roller should be new.
If you have rebuilt / refilled/re-manufactured cartridge - this is first thing you should look at. Non OEM cartridges tend to lay a microscopic layer of toner where in office environment nobody cares but for platemaking it will nightmare no matter what plates or chemicals you use. Also over the years of using this set-up, I have noticed- when it gets cold the toning/framing issue becomes bigger problem. Make sure that printer is in clean, warm room - the cold / chilly air does affect electrostatic copying / printing process, even drum cleaning blade made out of silicone become stiffer and may not clean the drum the way it should causing toner layer on the plate (you may not see it with the naked eye) and toning, picture framing on the press.
I usually replace toner cartridge and fuser trough half of the life cycle to keep the quality up, full disassemble / cleaning of printer 2-3 times a year (including mirrors and lenses inside the laser unit)

 

[GeorgeHB]

Thanks for the quick reply. We use an HP 5000. I have changed the settings per instructions from SmartPlate support, the printer is in a warm environment, and it was serviced last summer ('11). The only thing that might be an issue is the toner cartridge. It's not OEM. I'll see if I can get one and give it a shot.
George

 

[OkiTech]

Try Ebay, just make sure you're buying OEM HP sealed product. It had been resourceful for me so far.

 

[OkiTech]

I was just thinking - there is a way to check if you're having on-press or printer/platemaking issue.
Take an unexposed plate - just out of the box, hang on press and run other side of some spoiled job. You may draw something with permanent Sharpie on the plate just for the heck of it - it will hold for few hundred impressions. If toning/framing shows up - it is chemistry /press if not - it is the way the plate made...
Also you can try this - at the end of the run clean some of non image area with strong solvent - acetone or (automotive)Chock-cleaner, run few dozen of sheets - if cleaned area stays clear of toning - this should indicate that problem created by platemaking...

 

[Happyprinter]

Years ago we ran a few Smart plates for our Ryobi 3200's using a HP 5000 and they ran pretty well. Like BT said, be sure your using OEM HP.

 

[hawk]

Abdick dpm34sc

Abdick dpm34sc

Hi, I have a ABDICK DPM34HSC polyester platesetter, i want to sell it. It is 2005 and with everything (RIP&DONGLE). it is in perfect and working condition. if anybody is interested call me at
203-606 4319.