Polyester Plates

[saheb]

hello for every one here
i want to know if any one know about the Polyester Plates (like the Setprint Plus from Agfa) , we want to start use this poly plate fin size of 100X70 cm 8 up pages to print 4 colors so is that possible and do any ony can give me some hints about poly plate printablety?

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Polyester Plates

Why not request several sets of plate and test them yourself?
OG

 

[saheb]

Re: Polyester Plates

hello Mr. Offset,i didnt because i want to buy 8pages imagesetter then i can try the poly plate ,right now we make our mital offset plate in pre-press office ,do you have any expert in this feald? which imagesetter and which brand of poly plate with size 100X70 you use??

Thank you

Babylon

 

[marktonk]

Re: Polyester Plates

Babylon,

It is not practical to use poly plates for an 8 up press and print 4 color. In fact, I do not think anyone manufactures 12 mil (.30 mm) plates anymore, we use to use them on 4 up, which in itself was challenging. I am not sure you can even get a large enough roll of material.

Regards,

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA
Product Manager, CtP & Proofing

 

[saheb]

Re: Polyester Plates

Dear Mr. Mark
Many thanks for your vlaubale information.

Regards

Babylon

 

[mrheidelberg]

Re: Polyester Plates

Hi,

Polyester plates and 4 colour work is not a good mix due to fit issues at the very least. Stick to metal plates for a lot less headaches.

Regards.

 

[saheb]

Re: Polyester Plates

Hi
Thanks for the advice Mrheidelberg

 

[DonBlock]

Re: Polyester Plates

Babylon,

Depending on yor press and the run length, you certainly can run 8 mil poly in an 8 up imagesetter with very good results. Those who question fit issues just don't know how to run the material or have other motives for their statements. The material is easy to obtain either from your local Mitsubishi or Agfa dealer, I would recommend the Mitsubishi. Using an Agfa Avantra 44, you will get the registration and consistancy on the plate that you need as well as a very sharp dot. They are not made anymore but they can be found on the used market and reconditioned. Don't give up the thought of poly.. Metal may end up being a better choice for you, but make sure you are informed before you make that decission.

 

[bobh]

Re: Polyester Plates

Babylon,
I am using Mitsubishi Poly plates. We have a Heidelburg QM46 Quickmaster press and I am using a Heidelburg QM Imagesetter. Our plates are 340mm x 505mm and we only use this for business cards and 2/color work. We also have Fuji Pro-T processorless plates for our more critical 2/color to 4/color work, because the poly plates do stretch. The only thing we do is split the difference from the position at the gripper and the position at the tail end of the sheet.
But the quality of the Mitsubishi Poly plates are good.

Bobh

 

[marktonk]

Re: Polyester Plates

Babylon,

We do sell the Quicksetter 300E poly CtP which is a perfect match for a Quickmaster 46. With the Primesetter we were able to go up to a 30 inch poly plate for an SM 74 using 12mil material. This was a bit tough but doable. The Primesetter was discontinued in 2001. We never ventured into poly on an 8 up and the 12 mil poly plates have been discontinued. I do not beleive running 8 mil poly plates on a 8up press that is designed to have 12 mil plates would be a viable solution with the amount of stretch you get with 8 mil material over 40 inches and over 4 colors. It was probably be a stretch with 12 mil poly. No hidden agenda here, we seem to print alot where I work , If some one says you can do it, get several sets of plates and try it.. Try the same with metal. Good luck, let us know if you try it.

Regards,

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA
Product Manager, CtP & Proofing

 

[amsman]

Re: Polyester Plates

We are using a Eskofot DPX 2 with Mitsubishi Poly plates. We run a Heidelberg GT052V & Quickmaster 46 presses. Our plates are 510mm x 400mm and 340mm x 505mm and find them quite good even for 4 colour close register work.

You have to have operators that are prepared to learn how to adapt to the Poly plates, to get the best out of them, your dampening system ( Alcolor ) has to be nearly perfect ( Prone to catch up ).

Poly plates do stretch more than metal, and like to be wet as possible on startup ie: once in place let them run for 30secs with the dampening system on before impression, ( a preset on SM & QM Machines. )

90% of success will be the operator. +Rough & ready+ printers will either damage the plate, scratches or marking or constantly over tighten them.

Over 1000mm x 700mm I think you would be asking too much for acceptable registration.

We are a small operation and a Plate unit that exposes, develops and stacks the plates once complete is a time & money saver, as opposed to expensive metal systems without cassette loading.

Basically sitting on the fence until they decide which Metal System will be the industry standard...............

 

[DonBlock]

Re: Polyester Plates

It's funny that the responses have been about the stretching of the plates. One even about stretching metal plates. The plates are not stretching. The packing needs to be correct for both plates or you will get what appears to be stretching on the printed copy. If the press is packed properly and the pressure adjusted correctly, the results will be the same with Poly or Metal....

 

[saheb]

Re: Polyester Plates

Dear Don
you are very right , you must print by yourself to know how important the packing is , packing value not only mean more or less pressure ,its mean more or less radius which will lead to different in relative motions between the three cylinders which will lead to how you describe as WHAT APPEARS STRETCHING ON PRINTED COPY .
But what i am not know yet that is it posibble to use poly plate in 100X70 cm offset printing machine or no,its seem like no one try that before!

Thank you

Babylon

 

[marktonk]

Re: Polyester Plates

Actually, if a press operator over torques a poly plate, they can stretch it...this would be hard to do to metal. The operator must be more careful. .As you get to 40", where a 12 mil plate is typically the spec,being that there is no longer 12 mil poly plate material, you would have to use 8 mil, easier to stretch and also compensate your packing. Again, to be sure yourself, print several jobs with each.

Regards,

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA
Product Manager, CtP & Proofing

 

[Lukew]

Re: Polyester Plates

I can't believe that you would think poly plates don't stretch, they are notorious for it. Take for instance you get all the packing right, set all the clamps perfectly get all four decks on a 4 colour to register perfectly, and 9 times out of 10 every other lot of plates you put on will need tinkering to get perfect register.
Print something with a far amount of ink coverage, and the plates stretch even more (this will happen even on say 350gsm+ card so its not just paper strech. Give me metal plates any day..

 

[menuprinter]

Re: Polyester Plates

I wish there was a way to filter vendors from putting in their "2 cents"..... Isn't this forum supposed to be about printers and NOT vendors?. For example , in this thread,....Heidelberg has to step in and give their "2-cents, more like 1-cent"......Lets be real! Do you think for one moment that a vendor who has an "opinion" on something is going to refer the forum to another vendor? or ask yourself this, "Is a heidelberg employee ever going to openly bad-mouth their own equipment?...I DON'T THINK SO!.... This is not to say that "THEY" don't have something OF value to say but can anyone say "AGENDA"?...... Lets all band together and when we see a vendor on this site..... just type "GET OUT, YOU'RE NOT INVITED".

It's very simple, we need to hear from an audience of printers and not an audience of vendors...... printers will always be honest with one another because in their heart they are passionate about what they do and they truly want to help their fellow printer through an exchange of information. I cannot echo the same sentiment for vendors because the ONLY thing they care about is selling their equipment. In closing, my father always told me, "Jack, take it from where it comes". In this case, ANYTHING that a vendor has to say has only one motive- SALES!.

 

[saheb]

Re: Polyester Plates

Dear Mr. Jack
Sometimes vendors can help ,or maybe they can give the most good help specially if they are HEIDELBERG vendors, so no need to be nervous anymore ,you can not read what they type/say here or in any where , its true that they want to seal BUT no shame about that at all as long as they not force us to buy what they seal !!
Your father advice is very good ,but if you translate it from other side you will see that HEIDELBERG vendor is the only one who we must listen to because ITS ALL COME FROM HEIDELBERG.
At the end i want to say i am sorry for my poor English language and its always nice to hear from printers in every where.

Babylon

 

[menuprinter]

Re: Polyester Plates

Babylon:

I am a very loyal Heidelberg customer.......I personally would not have any other press in my shop. I am fascinated and sold by the Heidelberg craftsmanship..... When I go to the print shows, Graph Expo especially, I spend most of my time at the Heidelberg booth. I understand your comment but there IS shame in trying to sell on a site that is geared specifically for an "exchange of information and/or ideas". As for your comment- "IT ALL COMES FROM HEIDELBERG"..........I disagree because although they make a great product there have been many products out there with the "Heidelberg Name" that have not done so well. For example, #1: the CTP system QS-350, #2: Their envelope feeder (which I spent 8000.00 on) and is a hunk of crap....I believe they no longer sell it. And it doesn't all come from heidlelberg.........there are many vendors on the planet that make products superior to those sold by heidelberg.....I personally would not by any other press other than that from Heidelberg. It is amazing to me that the heidelberg sales force stands firm behind their products...they will say all sorts of things (all positive, of course) and I tend to believe them........ but the moment you suggest the idea that you want to buy a "PRE-OWNED" Heidelberg press they don't stand too close behind their product.... very ironic! We can go on and on but what's the point?.......For once I would like to hear a vendor say something good about another vendors product instead of touting their own wares....... by the way can anyone out there give input to how much I should pay for a pre-owned SM-52, circa 2004 with low impressions?

 

[DonBlock]

Re: Polyester Plates

Perfect registration has nothing to do with stretching of the plates. If ou measure the printed piece, and it measures correctly, then there is no stretch. The gradual increase of the length of the job will almost always be an issue with packing, pressure or both. On a system that is made to produce poly plates where the plates come off punched for the press, registration is as perfect as any other system including metal.

There is a market and reasons to use both technologies and this should be the consideration that determines which is used. We have many customers that use both and we make sure they get and are happy with which ever they choose. We take the time to educate them and to find out their needs and future plans before we recommend a system to them.

I can say that of our customers that are running 8mil poly on Agfa Avantra 30's & 44's for their larger presses are very pleased with the results they get. There are a few presses that will ot run poly very well and the only way to determine that is testing. Other than that, the only real factor for determining which to use is the run length and the line screen or type of screening the customer requires.

 

[lfelton]

Re: Polyester Plates

We average well over 1,000 poly plates a month on our B3 press. With auto plate punching and loading it's extremely rare for them not to be in perfect fit first pull. We are strictly short run, a maximum of around 20,000 sheets, anything over that would be very exceptional for us. Never have any problems with plate wear, never experienced "plate stretch". We've been running this system for about 3 years now so can't really understand it when people talk about "problems" with poly plates. Yes, you do have to set up chemistry / damping / plate loading etc specifically for poly. The only draw back that we have currently is the limitation of 175lpi. It would be nice to go to a higher screen ruling for some jobs but that's just not possible with poly.

We will probably go processless metal some time over the next year or two, but that's purely because poly plate makers are being phased out and because we want to run over 175lpi, so I couldn't recommend it as a long term strategy.

Hope that helps.

- L