Possible Plate Switch

[Steelhead121]

We are exploring the idea of switching plates to a different vendor. We have been using Kodak Sword Plates for several years. A good portion of our work is 20 micron stochastic. For the most part we do a great job with color consistency but we do have color drift on the occasional job. That takes place mostly with the magenta and/or cyan units. A couple of our press operators say that the Sword plate "looks" too wet to them. They would like to test the Fuji LHPJ plate, and are being told by Fuji that they will have better color control with the dryer running Fuji plate. Others say that the press operators will spend more time chasing color with the Fuji plate due to the reduced water running on the plate. Does anybody have experience on the run-ability differences between the Fuji LHPJ and the Kodak Sword plates? Durability differences? What are some things to consider if we explore testing other plates? Thanks in advance for your help......SH

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Have you done any dot gain measurements to verify that the plates are running 'wet' I would imagine if this was the case then the ink should be emulsified somewhat and your control targets would indicate this. Also plates dont actually know what colour they are printing so how are the Black and yellow units running with this plate? Before I did anything I would check out my print units and fountain solution system and see if you can find any issues. Switching plates will not solve poor press practices or poor press maintenance.
I see you say that 'a couple' of your press operators are complaining what about the other operators? are they seeing the same issues.
Just some things to think about

 

[gordo]

We have been using Kodak Sword Plates for several years. A good portion of our work is 20 micron stochastic.

Neither the Sword Excel or Ultra are qualified for 20 micron FM.

gordo

 

[chevalier]

I am in no way compensated/employed by Fujifilm.

We currently utilized the LHPJ plate but we currently do not use FM screening. I've ran Kodak and Agfa thermal and violet plates previously as well (don't remember what brand-families the plates were). I'm a huge fan of the LHPJ plate as it has been the most consistent and reliable plate I've ever worked with.

On the prepress side:
Generally speaking this is the lowest maintenance plate/chemical processor I have had to deal with in my career. The thermal Kodak plates I used to use 4+ years ago were pretty maintenance heavy in comparison. The processor is easy to clean and the chemicals are easy to handle. If your tap-water contains a lot of calcium you'll want to use a weak acid to clean the device as the plate emulsion that washes away will want to bond hard and fast. In a high-calcium tap-water scenario also be sure to vigorously clean out the drain tubes within the processor as it will want to clog in the elbows and drain slowly (we do this every 3 - 6 months as needed).


On the pressroom side:
There are a lot of variables beyond just the plate to consider when looking into such a change. Make sure Fujifilm brings in a plate specialist during your testing. Make sure your fountain solution(s), wash-up chemicals and inks are compatible with the plate.

Issues we've experienced:
We have issues sometimes with conventional metallic inks, a few particular UV inks and our conventional "red inks" like to "attack" the LHPJ plate in extended runs. We've tested with various ink vendors, fountain solutions and wash-up chemicals and we know that ink we are using is the culprit but it has been determined at this point to be more economical to expose extra plates for the extended runs than change vendors.

Assuming you are in the USA:
Fujifilm service - get a service plan! You won't need these guys often but when you do you'll learn how they destroy the competition. Fujifilm's service group is the gold-standard in this realm as far as I am concerned.

 

[Chasfinch]

we used the LPJ plates for years. They were stable and had no issues with the plates themselves in 5 years i was hear. We have switched to the ecomaxx and until the boys out on the press found a reliable way of developing it was growing pains with those. But as of right now they are not an issue either.

 

[BeauchampT]

I've run Kodak Sword plates for years. They do get more 'wet' looking as your run - that's actually plate grain wear. Those plates loose their grain the longer you run and then the water starts riding higher up - same water levels will look much different as the plate ages.

As far as color drift, we found that the Sword plates are subject to a lot of dot sharpening on the plate. We would see our dot gains drift steadily downward (up to 4% in the highlights). When measured with a plate scanner, you could see a change in the actual dot that corresponded to the shift in dot gain. Now ask a a Kodak rep and he will let you know that the plates are very resistant to chemical attach - and they are! But they are not so tough with physical and mechanical attach. My guess is that you have either a) cyan and magenta inks that are rough on the plates, or b) you get more piling in cyan and magenta and this is eating away at your plate image over time.

One of our sister plates tested Fuji and found them quite stable for dot wear over time, but that is anecdotal for me.

T