Prepress outsourcing to india
- Thread starter Hairfarm
- Start date
ttlprinting
Member
Hello
Between 1992 and 2006 I freelanced and made a decent living producing textbooks for two large book publishers here in Canada. Around 2006 I was told that my main client was outsourcing the prepress of the books to India. Sorry I do not have any details, but as a result of this move I had to re-invent myself and now my wife and I do real estate photography and produced brochures for the real estate marker. We are trying to move into more of the printing end and less of the photography part.
Speaking as someone that has been using outsourcing for sometime....communication will need to be at a perfect level. Ideas and concepts will need to be explicitly explained in detail. It depends on what they are being asked to do and the quality of the people on the other end. If you are sending actual design work and your employer maintains no staff to handle the communication that will be required, life will be very unpleasant.
j.thompson
New member
Hairfarm - good luck with your new profession, if you decide to jump. If you hang in there during all the changes, I think you might find that any attempts to outsource will ultimately fail. Vmoore is right, think about all the problem files that you have processed, then try to imagine them being handled in india, life will be very unpleasent. (my wife works for a company that outsources to India, I've seen the results!)
This is en excerpt from an abstract on a study done here in Sweden about outsourcing IT:
Many corporations turn to IT-outsourcing to focus more on their core competence or to cut the IT-budget. There is one caveat, the costs presented at a first glance does not always present the entire truth. Instead the costs run deeper and so-called hidden costs exist beyond the contractual cost. Reducing these hidden costs may very well be crucial to the entire IT-outsourcing endeavor. However many firms are not aware of these costs and as such they have a reduced chance of success. .... Hidden costs in the IT-outsourcingprocess may exist in; contracts, vendor selection, transferring IT-functions, managing and measuring the effort. .... Critical IT-activities is best left in-house and IT-competence must be retained by the organization regardless of outsourced activities. ....
(GUPEA: IT-outsourcing – dolda kostnader)
I think if you search carefully you will see that there exist several studies that examine the effects of outsourcing, and it seems most of them takes a much more critical look at it than greedy mangement. The savings are often not what they expected. There are much arguments to be found in studies like this one.
Many corporations turn to IT-outsourcing to focus more on their core competence or to cut the IT-budget. There is one caveat, the costs presented at a first glance does not always present the entire truth. Instead the costs run deeper and so-called hidden costs exist beyond the contractual cost. Reducing these hidden costs may very well be crucial to the entire IT-outsourcing endeavor. However many firms are not aware of these costs and as such they have a reduced chance of success. .... Hidden costs in the IT-outsourcingprocess may exist in; contracts, vendor selection, transferring IT-functions, managing and measuring the effort. .... Critical IT-activities is best left in-house and IT-competence must be retained by the organization regardless of outsourced activities. ....
(GUPEA: IT-outsourcing – dolda kostnader)
I think if you search carefully you will see that there exist several studies that examine the effects of outsourcing, and it seems most of them takes a much more critical look at it than greedy mangement. The savings are often not what they expected. There are much arguments to be found in studies like this one.
Regarding Prepress
Regarding Prepress
Hi Hairfarm,
Read your post... Its really bad that the company is going to outsource your jobs. I have a friend who has information on the prepress services outsourced. Maybe she can help you out. You can ask her what are your requirements.
Sally.
Regarding Prepress
Hi Hairfarm,
Read your post... Its really bad that the company is going to outsource your jobs. I have a friend who has information on the prepress services outsourced. Maybe she can help you out. You can ask her what are your requirements.
Sally.
Tony Vangelabbeek
New member
outsourcing prepress
outsourcing prepress
Hi,
My own experience, after having tried prepress outsourcing from 2001 on, is that it is very difficult. And I really mean VERY difficult, up to the point where you find after some time that there's no cost savings at all.
My wife and I, we had our own small Belgian typesetting company for 25 years, then took the big decision end of 2004: we relocated to India ourselves. I wanted to have direct impact on HR and on the job execution.
Believe me, it's a long journey. I invite you to read my blog thewigglingblog
At the moment we have 25 people working in our office and we made a big leap in production and quality from the moment we were fysically present here ourselves.
Best regards,
Tony Vangelabbeek
Genesis Textware pvt. ltd.
outsourcing prepress
Hi,
My own experience, after having tried prepress outsourcing from 2001 on, is that it is very difficult. And I really mean VERY difficult, up to the point where you find after some time that there's no cost savings at all.
My wife and I, we had our own small Belgian typesetting company for 25 years, then took the big decision end of 2004: we relocated to India ourselves. I wanted to have direct impact on HR and on the job execution.
Believe me, it's a long journey. I invite you to read my blog thewigglingblog
At the moment we have 25 people working in our office and we made a big leap in production and quality from the moment we were fysically present here ourselves.
Best regards,
Tony Vangelabbeek
Genesis Textware pvt. ltd.
Tony Vangelabbeek
New member
@muminn
In long term we will all be dead, then outsourcing isn't a problem anymore ...
@Baldbug
Yeah, that is the operational model we also use: raw production in low-cost country, added value (language-specifics, client comm, service afterwards, corrections, extra quality check) in the country of client.
In long term we will all be dead, then outsourcing isn't a problem anymore ...
@Baldbug
Yeah, that is the operational model we also use: raw production in low-cost country, added value (language-specifics, client comm, service afterwards, corrections, extra quality check) in the country of client.
pressman.in
Member
Seasonal greetings..hairfarm,
Well, I am from India. As someone said , we are in halfway in implimenting color management. Days has changed, There are so many international printers who has prepress unit in India with printing at different locations (Eg. Emirates printing press). Inspite of difficulty in color management they have adopted some common guidelines in following the system.And they are successful.
We are also equally equipped interms of softwares / systems / press / QC devices / Team etc. It may be difficult to monitor and control in the initial time but in the long run it will proove a cost effective system. I shall suggest you to try as you are not the first person to impliment this system.
I am a colormanagement consultant.I impliment Process Standardization and color management for Offset printing ([email protected]).
Also support your management in implimenting this system a successful one.
pressman.
Well, I am from India. As someone said , we are in halfway in implimenting color management. Days has changed, There are so many international printers who has prepress unit in India with printing at different locations (Eg. Emirates printing press). Inspite of difficulty in color management they have adopted some common guidelines in following the system.And they are successful.
We are also equally equipped interms of softwares / systems / press / QC devices / Team etc. It may be difficult to monitor and control in the initial time but in the long run it will proove a cost effective system. I shall suggest you to try as you are not the first person to impliment this system.
I am a colormanagement consultant.I impliment Process Standardization and color management for Offset printing ([email protected]).
Also support your management in implimenting this system a successful one.
pressman.
cmcfarling
Active member
- language barrier (both spoken and written)
- time difference
- different concepts of quality
- physical communication problems
- difficult to get quick answers
- level of expertise may be lower
I worked with an Indian firm a couple years ago on a web programming project, so my experience was a little different than outsourcing a prepress operation but the same drawbacks would likely be present.
My experience wasn't bad, it just wasn't great either. In the end they delivered an extremely vanilla version of what we had asked for. I would have liked it to have been more polished and complete, which is what I would have gotten had I gone with a US web developer I think. Cost wise there was a significant savings though. Communication was the biggest barrier. For my single project I worked it out, but I will say that I probably would not want it to be the daily norm. It was difficult coordinating specific times to have conversations due to time differences. Depending on who I talked to the language barrier was a hindrance. Some spoke pretty good English, others not so much. It's a pain to have to ask someone to repeat what they said 4 times before you can understand it.
For a prepress setting, I'd say that as long as everything goes as planned then it may pan out. And everything always goes as planned, right? The achilles heel of this setup would be when there are problems that need resolved ASAP. That's when all of the bad things will come to light. It's hard enough coordinating efforts between sales people, production managers and production workers if there's a problem when they're under the same roof.
My guess would be that quality would suffer too. To what extent is acceptable is largely dependent on the cost savings. If the costs truly can be reduced, which is the only reason for outsourcing in the first place, then management will likely accept slightly lesser quality. For the prepress manager on this end life will be more difficult. Everything becomes virtual, you can't actually see anything that's going on, other than remote access to computer screens maybe. Configuring remote access adds a separate layer of complexity and is one more link in the chain that can break.
It's great that there is a thriving democracy in that part of the world with people who really want to work. It's just that we're years ahead and they've got a lot of catching up to do. After all how many Indians do you see posting to prepress, printing, color management, etc forums, especially with answers and not just questions? (yes I realize the previous post was from India, which makes me glad to know that someone in India is aware of this site).
If you are a prepress manager overseeing outsourced services to India, I'd suggest reading this if you find yourself having to travel there.
- time difference
- different concepts of quality
- physical communication problems
- difficult to get quick answers
- level of expertise may be lower
I worked with an Indian firm a couple years ago on a web programming project, so my experience was a little different than outsourcing a prepress operation but the same drawbacks would likely be present.
My experience wasn't bad, it just wasn't great either. In the end they delivered an extremely vanilla version of what we had asked for. I would have liked it to have been more polished and complete, which is what I would have gotten had I gone with a US web developer I think. Cost wise there was a significant savings though. Communication was the biggest barrier. For my single project I worked it out, but I will say that I probably would not want it to be the daily norm. It was difficult coordinating specific times to have conversations due to time differences. Depending on who I talked to the language barrier was a hindrance. Some spoke pretty good English, others not so much. It's a pain to have to ask someone to repeat what they said 4 times before you can understand it.
For a prepress setting, I'd say that as long as everything goes as planned then it may pan out. And everything always goes as planned, right? The achilles heel of this setup would be when there are problems that need resolved ASAP. That's when all of the bad things will come to light. It's hard enough coordinating efforts between sales people, production managers and production workers if there's a problem when they're under the same roof.
My guess would be that quality would suffer too. To what extent is acceptable is largely dependent on the cost savings. If the costs truly can be reduced, which is the only reason for outsourcing in the first place, then management will likely accept slightly lesser quality. For the prepress manager on this end life will be more difficult. Everything becomes virtual, you can't actually see anything that's going on, other than remote access to computer screens maybe. Configuring remote access adds a separate layer of complexity and is one more link in the chain that can break.
It's great that there is a thriving democracy in that part of the world with people who really want to work. It's just that we're years ahead and they've got a lot of catching up to do. After all how many Indians do you see posting to prepress, printing, color management, etc forums, especially with answers and not just questions? (yes I realize the previous post was from India, which makes me glad to know that someone in India is aware of this site).
If you are a prepress manager overseeing outsourced services to India, I'd suggest reading this if you find yourself having to travel there.
Tupha
New member
I too have been in the Outsopurcing and Off-shoring market for 30 years for some of the largest enterprises and global banks, and yes, the world markets are now global and everyone has to think so, but it is not as simple as "Oh, it is cheaper to do, therefore it is the right way...".
What has to be considered is the larger picture of ecconomic impact. Off-shoring, which is what we are really refering too as it can be captive too (i.e. employees employed abroad) has an impact on the profitability and margin of a company, for sure. This ensures that it can give greater shareholder value (dividends) and hence Exec bonuses, and then when competition starts to do the same, theycan lower their prices too. Great if you are a shareholder and Exec. It has fueled the ecconomic growth of the nations that the off-shoring is done to, such as India, China, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Korea, Vietnam, etc, etc. as employees now have money, and they share with family who all spend locally which in tern fuels that local ecconomy and hence new businesses spring up to service the new businesses and business being done and the wealth gets greater and it impacts on the national ecconomy as a whole. GREAT. NOW THE BUT.
The ecconomy is a cycle. What created the wealth and ecconomic growth in the countries and communities that off-shoring took place to, is exactly the same, but in reverse locally. Now we have ecconomic gettos. Whilst it looks like the UK ecconomy is doing well, it is ONLY for the top 0.01% who are doing astoundingly - the plutocrats. In the histoiry of the UK ecconomy there has never been such a devide between the haves and have nots. The argument is there are not the skills in the UK. Wrong, there are not the skills at the price corportaes are prepared to pay, and would have to pay to have an equivellent. The cost of living in the UK is 20 times that of India! No one could survive, never mind why should you have all that technical excellence in your chosen subject to get paid an appitence and need subsidies from the state (Benefits, which are being cut and major enterprises avaid pay taxes to contribute too). I would also argue and have more than first hand experience that UK expertise is as good if not better than their off-shore counterparts, excluding Poland. So, local ecconomies are not healthy and the cycle goes on going round such that now these big corporates also have falling revenues and margins, why, because the people they displaced and the ecconomies they are part of are their customers and now have no monies to buy their goods! One of the high street banks is actually considering geting rid of most of its managers, not for efficiencies, but because there are not enough staff left in the UK to manage anymore. SO they will have only a few branch staff and managers and Execs, that's it, the rest are all in India.
The UK invests 600% more in India for instance than the other way round, yet India is 2000 times larger and will be the World's largest ecconomy whilst the UK will struggle to be in G20 within 20 years. That is why the Indian Forign Minister came to the UK the moment he was elected in to positioon and the Prime Minister came here last week and was arguing to have all UK controls on Indian workers coming here, lifted, so that they could undercut UK employment rates, not pay taxes and take our salaries back to India to fuel their ecconomic growth, It is wrong. The ecconomies have to be balanced. Sooner or later the UK ecconomy will fail, and then India will loose it's biggest customer.
All the best,
https://diceus.com/outsourcing-india-bad-idea/
What has to be considered is the larger picture of ecconomic impact. Off-shoring, which is what we are really refering too as it can be captive too (i.e. employees employed abroad) has an impact on the profitability and margin of a company, for sure. This ensures that it can give greater shareholder value (dividends) and hence Exec bonuses, and then when competition starts to do the same, theycan lower their prices too. Great if you are a shareholder and Exec. It has fueled the ecconomic growth of the nations that the off-shoring is done to, such as India, China, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Korea, Vietnam, etc, etc. as employees now have money, and they share with family who all spend locally which in tern fuels that local ecconomy and hence new businesses spring up to service the new businesses and business being done and the wealth gets greater and it impacts on the national ecconomy as a whole. GREAT. NOW THE BUT.
The ecconomy is a cycle. What created the wealth and ecconomic growth in the countries and communities that off-shoring took place to, is exactly the same, but in reverse locally. Now we have ecconomic gettos. Whilst it looks like the UK ecconomy is doing well, it is ONLY for the top 0.01% who are doing astoundingly - the plutocrats. In the histoiry of the UK ecconomy there has never been such a devide between the haves and have nots. The argument is there are not the skills in the UK. Wrong, there are not the skills at the price corportaes are prepared to pay, and would have to pay to have an equivellent. The cost of living in the UK is 20 times that of India! No one could survive, never mind why should you have all that technical excellence in your chosen subject to get paid an appitence and need subsidies from the state (Benefits, which are being cut and major enterprises avaid pay taxes to contribute too). I would also argue and have more than first hand experience that UK expertise is as good if not better than their off-shore counterparts, excluding Poland. So, local ecconomies are not healthy and the cycle goes on going round such that now these big corporates also have falling revenues and margins, why, because the people they displaced and the ecconomies they are part of are their customers and now have no monies to buy their goods! One of the high street banks is actually considering geting rid of most of its managers, not for efficiencies, but because there are not enough staff left in the UK to manage anymore. SO they will have only a few branch staff and managers and Execs, that's it, the rest are all in India.
The UK invests 600% more in India for instance than the other way round, yet India is 2000 times larger and will be the World's largest ecconomy whilst the UK will struggle to be in G20 within 20 years. That is why the Indian Forign Minister came to the UK the moment he was elected in to positioon and the Prime Minister came here last week and was arguing to have all UK controls on Indian workers coming here, lifted, so that they could undercut UK employment rates, not pay taxes and take our salaries back to India to fuel their ecconomic growth, It is wrong. The ecconomies have to be balanced. Sooner or later the UK ecconomy will fail, and then India will loose it's biggest customer.
All the best,
https://diceus.com/outsourcing-india-bad-idea/
Last edited:
photoshopdude
Active member
Lifelong prepress tech, retoucher...blah blah. Most of the clipping path and color correction work is being done in India. Go on Linkedin, its filled with people from India trying to get your clipping path business. India is taking all of the eCommerce retouching away from USA. What I used to get paid $30 hour to do to an image, India does it for 35 cents an image. I can't blame them, blame the global economy for killing the middle class workers in this country.
OffsetStorefront
Well-known member
Would you be mad if someone else in your own country was doing it for 35 cents an image? Or just chalk it up to economics?
mrobak
New member
But outsourcing is not only about economics, isn't it?
Cultural criteria are very important as well. Also, the knowledge of the foreign language and ability to learn fast are an important part of a good outsourcing process.
If you agree with me, here are some interesting articles, which describe how important is culture for a good result:
https://www.nearshoreamericas.com/cultural-dimension-outsourcing/
https://www.n-ix.com/ukrainian-software-developers-culture-communication-outsourcing/
Cultural criteria are very important as well. Also, the knowledge of the foreign language and ability to learn fast are an important part of a good outsourcing process.
If you agree with me, here are some interesting articles, which describe how important is culture for a good result:
https://www.nearshoreamericas.com/cultural-dimension-outsourcing/
https://www.n-ix.com/ukrainian-software-developers-culture-communication-outsourcing/
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