Printing on vinyl

[pun_lavor]

How do you people deal with drying on vinyl material in sheetfed offset?
Chemistry is set to match the material and ink specifications, also fast drying inks are used.
Small stacks are used during printing, climate within the production room is fine. Actually, everything seems to be fine.
Still, it happened for second time that the stock wouldn't drie even after 3 days.
At the end, we applied waterbased coating on the stock, and the problem was solved.

 

[pq man]

What type of ink are you using? It doe's take time to dry I have had it take up to a week.

 

[John Arneson]

Printing on vinyl is tricky business to say the least. I run 15pt. vinyl quite often and here are two of the tricks I have found to make the stuff dry for the cutter the next morning.
1. Allied Starfont fountain solution, it is made for vinyl .
2. Rewind your loads 20 min after they come out of the delivery. Loads no larger than 3in. Put some fans on the rewinded loads and leave them on till morning.


hope this helps

 

[pun_lavor]

Ink used: http://www.flintgrp.com/en/documents/Sheetfed/sf_process_ti_Novaplast_e.pdf
Material used: http://www.europe.averygraphics.com/DatasheetDocs/ds_fasson_offset_vinyl_en291205.pdf

A week of drying is unacceptable, since from all suppliers we got promises that if everything is set fine, 48 hours of drying is enough.
Not to mention, that the stock needs to be die cut.

 

[pun_lavor]

Printing on vinyl is tricky business to say the least. I run 15pt. vinyl quite often and here are two of the tricks I have found to make the stuff dry for the cutter the next morning.
1. Allied Starfont fountain solution, it is made for vinyl .
2. Rewind your loads 20 min after they come out of the delivery. Loads no larger than 3in. Put some fans on the rewinded loads and leave them on till morning.


hope this helps

We did rewind the stock every 2-3 hours after printing. We even spread it out through the warehouse.
However, these kind of silly methods make me think we're still in stone age.
I just want my stock dryed after 48 hours, since we did everything according to specifications.

 

[Bob Peterson]

pun_lavor

Printing on vinyl is unlike printing on an absorbent substrate, i.e. paper. There are several requirements that must be met to successfully print on this substrate.

The biggest culprits, that cause slow drying, I encounter out in the field when running on synthetic substrates are:

1.) Incorrect inks being used. Vinyl should be printed with a non-stay open, high solids/low VOC inks designed specifically for vinyl substrate. Standard quick setting stay open inks should Never be used.

2.) Improperly mixed fountain solution. Most shops that run alcohol free, that use a 2-step solution, tend to use entirely too much alcohol substitute. This substitute will retard (slow down) the drying of the ink. When running synthetic substrates, the mix should contain no more then 1 oz per gallon. If possible, it is best to use 5-10% isopropol alcohol. Alcohol will evaporate where as the alcohol substitute will not.

3.) Too much water being run. Water has no where to go on a synthetic substrate, it cannot evaporate, nor can it absorb into the substrate like it does on paper. This excessive water will retard the inks oxidation, especially if the solution is improperly mixed. I always recommend that an 1/8" scum line be run on these type of stocks.

My recommendation is to first insure that the above is being followed and to use a drying stimulator, at press time, like Grafo Drier or Hydro-Cure.

If I can ever be of any technical assistance please feel free to call me. U.S. Eastern Time (954) 587-0802

Regards,
Bob

 

[kyprinter]

We've had best results with VanSon Tough Tex ink with VanSon Liquid Colbalt drier added to fount solution. Be warned that this will need to be washed up soon after printing or you will have a heck of a time getting your rollers clean again. There are some colors (blues in particular) that are still slow to dry but for the most part this combination along with the small lift and other suggestions given would let us cut next day.

 

[REYES1377]

For the NON UV printer that is printing on synthetic stock, i heard of a company called Habitat. They have a ink and foutain solution package that is working very well.

 

[pun_lavor]

pun_lavor

Printing on vinyl is unlike printing on an absorbent substrate, i.e. paper. There are several requirements that must be met to successfully print on this substrate.

The biggest culprits, that cause slow drying, I encounter out in the field when running on synthetic substrates are:

1.) Incorrect inks being used. Vinyl should be printed with a non-stay open, high solids/low VOC inks designed specifically for vinyl substrate. Standard quick setting stay open inks should Never be used.

2.) Improperly mixed fountain solution. Most shops that run alcohol free, that use a 2-step solution, tend to use entirely too much alcohol substitute. This substitute will retard (slow down) the drying of the ink. When running synthetic substrates, the mix should contain no more then 1 oz per gallon. If possible, it is best to use 5-10% isopropol alcohol. Alcohol will evaporate where as the alcohol substitute will not.

3.) Too much water being run. Water has no where to go on a synthetic substrate, it cannot evaporate, nor can it absorb into the substrate like it does on paper. This excessive water will retard the inks oxidation, especially if the solution is improperly mixed. I always recommend that an 1/8" scum line be run on these type of stocks.

My recommendation is to first insure that the above is being followed and to use a drying stimulator, at press time, like Grafo Drier or Hydro-Cure.

If I can ever be of any technical assistance please feel free to call me. U.S. Eastern Time (954) 587-0802

Regards,
Bob

Bob,

thank you for answering.

1) The proper ink was used. I've posted a link with inks specification and requirements that need to be met before and during printing according to ink producer.
2) We are using isopropyl alcohol on our presses. During this job, we had 12% in dampening solution.
3) To much water was not used.

 

[pun_lavor]

For the NON UV printer that is printing on synthetic stock, i heard of a company called Habitat. They have a ink and foutain solution package that is working very well.

I've checked out what they offer. Seems quite interesting especially with the "stink free" part.
Would like to try it, although I doubt they sell in EU.

 

[John Arneson]

pun_lavor,
As I stated earlier it is possibly your fountain solution. I assume you are using the proper ink. I also asume the substrate is TRANSLEWRAP. (not sure of the spelling). I run this stuff a lot and when I changed my fountain solution drying times were in an acceptable range as in the next morning.
Call me if you like , I run this stuff a lot on a sheetfed non uv press.
John 206-728-2820

 

[Dan Roll]

There are a few things one can do when running on non-porous substrates. Try adding hydrogen peroxide to your fountain solution. This temporarily increases the oxygen level in the fountain solution, stimulating drying by oxidation. About eight ounces to twenty gallons seems to be enough, the problem is you have to add it at regular intervals as it is unstable. Every hour seems to work.

Another old trick, put a few drops of water on the substrate. If the water beads up like water on a freshly waxed car, things should go smoothly. If the water spreads out, effectively wetting the surface, call in sick until that job is out of the plant. I learned this back in the sixties from the old timers when we were printing on acetate sheets. All of the pallets of acetate looked the same, but the old guys would segregate the pallets with the wrong surface energy and trick us youngsters into running them.

 

[larsmvistisen]

You should try our X+Y=Dry ink dryer, it is a 2 component system, and it is mixed into the inks. The drying component will only be activated once the inks containing the X+Y=Dry get into contact with the dampening solution on the plates. You can also use an IPA FREE fount, a one part solution, as you will have a thinner water film on the plates, due to the nature of IPA FREE founts. As you have a thinner water film on the plates, you will actually need to run less inks, and you will still have the same color density. As you run a thinner ink film, your drying will also speed up. So a combination of X+Y=Dry and our Titan Elite IPA FREE fount, and you should see drying time improved dramatically. You should be able to work and turn during the same day. Please go to our web site www.abcalliedchem.com for more info.

 

[Lukew]

I have used both mentioned products above but not on synthetic stocks, just a xerox color-copy stock (ie very slow drying stock) And had to print reflex blue & PMS 431. I can say that the ink didn't dry much faster then what it has without the drier, but what the reflex did was dry completely, but this still took two days, the grey which was a solid never dried and needed varnishing.

I have found that the amount of glycols in the fountain solution have a dramatic effect on dry times, followed closely by the ink/fount emulsion - "Ink lay".