Problems with Hasler M5000 Folder

[SES]

We have a Hasler M5000 folder and we're having issues with getting it to fold straight. The folds are always skewed and sometimes skewed so bad that out of 100 brochures we'll have to throw away 20-25.

I've cleaned all of the accessible rollers to see if that would fix the problem, but it remains. Short of calling it in for service ($250/hour) is there anything I can do? Is this just a side-effect of having a friction-feed folder vs. air-feed?

 

[Craig]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the M5000 is an envelope inserter, not a folder. I doubt you have any control of the skew other than making very sure you are loading the paper in straight so the lead edge is square to the fold stop.

I would venture to say this is not a side effect of a friction feed but a side effect of using an inserter as a folder. You really should look at something like a Baum 714 table top folder, it will give you the ability to adjust for things like skew. Sometimes it's a matter of the right tool for the job.

 

[SES]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the M5000 is an envelope inserter, not a folder. I doubt you have any control of the skew other than making very sure you are loading the paper in straight so the lead edge is square to the fold stop.

I would venture to say this is not a side effect of a friction feed but a side effect of using an inserter as a folder. You really should look at something like a Baum 714 table top folder, it will give you the ability to adjust for things like skew. Sometimes it's a matter of the right tool for the job.

Well that's mildly embarrassing! You'll have to excuse my ignorance as I'm relatively new to this field. The company I work for has been using the Hasler M5000 for their folding needs up until this point and I didn't question it.

I will say that the paper is in there as straight as possible, but the machine does what it wants with it . I'll look into other folders–thanks Craig.

 

[SES]

I forgot to say one thing: even though the M5000 is a folder/inserter, it should still be folding things properly. Putting something into an envelope doesn't mean skewed folds are acceptable.

 

[Craig]

I forgot to say one thing: even though the M5000 is a folder/inserter, it should still be folding things properly. Putting something into an envelope doesn't mean skewed folds are acceptable.

That is a correct statement, the M5000 should be able to make a square fold, but there are no means to compensate for paper that may not be square. The rollers may not be wearing evenly therefore driving one side of the sheet harder than the other causing the fold to skew. I am going to assume the rollers are solid rubber, have you gaped them to make sure they are even? Is there a way to adjust the amount of pressure from left to right? Are the rollers clean or is there a build-up of ink causing uneven pressure?

Like I keep telling my crew, there is more to it than pushing the big green button and expecting things to work. Keep trouble shooting and look at everything that effects that sheet of paper, hell you could have something against the fold plate, like a torn piece of paper from a jam.

 

[SES]

That is a correct statement, the M5000 should be able to make a square fold, but there are no means to compensate for paper that may not be square. The rollers may not be wearing evenly therefore driving one side of the sheet harder than the other causing the fold to skew. I am going to assume the rollers are solid rubber, have you gaped them to make sure they are even? Is there a way to adjust the amount of pressure from left to right? Are the rollers clean or is there a build-up of ink causing uneven pressure?

Like I keep telling my crew, there is more to it than pushing the big green button and expecting things to work. Keep trouble shooting and look at everything that effects that sheet of paper, hell you could have something against the fold plate, like a torn piece of paper from a jam.

Yes, they rollers are solid rubber and I cleaned them recently with a towel and warm water.

What do you mean by "gaped"? I'll look into adjusting the pressure, but the manual doesn't make mention of it.

I'll take it apart later and look for any torn paper as well. Thanks for the advice!

 

[lfelton]

I'd check the manual on what you're meant to use to clean the rollers. I know that our folding machines have a pretty strong solvent used on the rollers to clean them thoroughly. A build up of ink won't wash off with warm water!

 

[SES]

I'd check the manual on what you're meant to use to clean the rollers. I know that our folding machines have a pretty strong solvent used on the rollers to clean them thoroughly. A build up of ink won't wash off with warm water!

I double-checked the manual and it says to use warm water. The rolls, upon visual inspection, don't look particularly dirty, so I'm not sure what it could be. I also looked for any torn paper from paper jams and couldn't find any.

 

[Craig]

Take 2 strips of paper about 11" long and 1" wide. Place each where the first roller starts to feed, 1 on the left and 1 on the right. Manually feed the strips into the first roller until they are about half way in and grab the tail ends and pull them back out. Do they both have an equal amount of drag? If so move onto the next roller, and try that. Keep going until you have done all the rollers. One strip of paper should not pull out any easier than the other. If it does you are more than likely driving that side of the sheet into the fold plate harder therefor causing a skew.

 

[SES]

Take 2 strips of paper about 11" long and 1" wide. Place each where the first roller starts to feed, 1 on the left and 1 on the right. Manually feed the strips into the first roller until they are about half way in and grab the tail ends and pull them back out. Do they both have an equal amount of drag? If so move onto the next roller, and try that. Keep going until you have done all the rollers. One strip of paper should not pull out any easier than the other. If it does you are more than likely driving that side of the sheet into the fold plate harder therefor causing a skew.

I'll give that a try, thanks Craig.

 

[WOC_Direct]

Skewed Fold

Skewed Fold

SES,

Were you able to solve your problem with skewed folds?

You mentioned you are trying to fold, for example, brochures. What weight is the stock and is it coated?

We have a Neopost SI-68, which I believe is the equivalent of a Hassler M-6000 and a step up from the M5000. When we bought the machine, we were told that we will have trouble folding / gloss stock. It's made for bond, offset text, etc. - essentially copy paper.

I have not tried running coated stock on it because I know it's out of spec and I don't want to pay to have the machine fixed if it breaks down.

Also, as far as I know there are no pressure or speed settings. Ours uses rollers, not plates to make the fold. Essentially, if you're looking for a production grade folder to handle gloss stock, take Craig's advice and look into a Baum or similar machine.

Hope this helps,
Pete