Quick Question - Click Charge

[MailGuru]

We're running a Xerox Versant 2100.

It is a special application that is way too complicated to get in to, but, here's the question:

I know that a blank page does not generate a click charge.

If I were to print something in white, so that it is not visible, and, appears as a blank page (CMYK = "0,0,0,0") would that generate a click charge or not?

If so, would it be interpreted as a B&W click charge, or, a color click charge?

Thanks

 

[ColorMonkey]

So I can speak of our Ricohs and the way it works. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by print "White" but in our case when only using "White' toner there is no click charge. If you mean just send a sheet through with no associated values to that page, hence a "blank" page, it clicks a b/w. Exception may be post inserting.

Thick of it this way, every time the sheet passes through the fuser it is a click, be it b/w or color respectively.

Don't run Xerox so this may not apply to you but the later is for most copiers.

BTW just test it by keeping track of your counter.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Couldn't you have tested this faster than typing up this forum post?

 

[bill kahny]

On my canon's some "blank" pages click and some don't long runs I always check my counters for the first print. pre-press always places grey color images I can't see and want a black click.

 

[gregbatch]

With our KM, a "blank" impression is a B/W click.

 

[Possumgal]

Not exactly on point, but related. I found out on our Xeroxes that when we run what we think is a black only job that contains a graphic that's CMYK black, it sees it as a color click. I'm not talking rich black, either, I'm talking 0,0,0,100. If the art was originally greyscale black, it registers as a black click. I'm careful to click the greyscale option in Command Work Station on all black jobs because of this. I don't know if the newer models still do this, but every Xerox tech I've asked has never heard of this, so I doubt the situation has changed.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Not exactly on point, but related. I found out on our Xeroxes that when we run what we think is a black only job that contains a graphic that's CMYK black, it sees it as a color click. I'm not talking rich black, either, I'm talking 0,0,0,100. If the art was originally greyscale black, it registers as a black click. I'm careful to click the greyscale option in Command Work Station on all black jobs because of this. I don't know if the newer models still do this, but every Xerox tech I've asked has never heard of this, so I doubt the situation has changed.

If you are saying that a CMYK black that is built as 0,0,0,100 registers as a color click then you have an issue with your machine. Even if I have the machine running in "CMYK" in the job properties, it still comes out as a black click. This is a critical operation of the RIP - perhaps you have a bustle server or skip the Fiery completely? I've never heard of this even with our 8 year old Xerox machines that have a bustle Fiery.

 

[gsbatch]

Not exactly on point, but related. I found out on our Xeroxes that when we run what we think is a black only job that contains a graphic that's CMYK black, it sees it as a color click. I'm not talking rich black, either, I'm talking 0,0,0,100. If the art was originally greyscale black, it registers as a black click. I'm careful to click the greyscale option in Command Work Station on all black jobs because of this. I don't know if the newer models still do this, but every Xerox tech I've asked has never heard of this, so I doubt the situation has changed.

Sounds like trim marks are set to "registration" rather than black.
I have also found that if you open some black vector images that the designer has left a tiny element in rich black or most often an outline was rich black.
If the machine clicks color there is color on the sheet somewhere.

 

[scotts]

As ColorMonkey says, if a piece of paper goes through the fuser it's a click. I've run Kodaks, HPs, Canons, Ricohs, Toshibas, and Xeroxs and they all seem to be the same as I can remember. If the unit has some post fuser assembly features, you can bypass the click charge, but not if it actually goes through the main "heart" of the machine. I can't remember if on color machines it will only count it as b/w, but I would think so. And if the rest of the print run is two sided, so will the click charge for the "blank" sheet, as it is two times through the fuser like all the other sheets.
You just have to remember to not take it out of the cost when quoting the job. Quote as pages, and not printed pages.

 

[pippip]

Depends on the machine. I just tested it there on our Xerox V80. two blank pages in the middle of two grayscale. All four came out of same tray with only two black clicks going onto the metre.

Same as our old DC242.

 

[Possumgal]

If you are saying that a CMYK black that is built as 0,0,0,100 registers as a color click then you have an issue with your machine. Even if I have the machine running in "CMYK" in the job properties, it still comes out as a black click. This is a critical operation of the RIP - perhaps you have a bustle server or skip the Fiery completely? I've never heard of this even with our 8 year old Xerox machines that have a bustle Fiery.

It is a bustled Fiery on a 700 and 700i. This only happens with Illustrator graphics, not raster art. The first time I discovered it, I changed the art to greyscale black in Illustrator, replaced it in the layout, and it registered a black click. The art was very simple shapes traced in Illustrator, all solid black, no color at all. Just something weird.

 

[jwheeler]

I find it's always best to just write down the meter, then run the job/sheet in question, then look at the new meter and do the math. This is also helpful when you have, what you think, is a mixed book of color and b/w pages, and the b/w pages are still charging color clicks. There might be some CMYK build behind the b/w causing a color click.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

It is a bustled Fiery on a 700 and 700i. This only happens with Illustrator graphics, not raster art. The first time I discovered it, I changed the art to greyscale black in Illustrator, replaced it in the layout, and it registered a black click. The art was very simple shapes traced in Illustrator, all solid black, no color at all. Just something weird.

No offense, but either you're doing it wrong and don't know how to evaluate a document to be either K only or your machine is broken.

Edit:

Post your file in question, I'd like to look at it.

 

[gregbatch]

Agreed, I would love to see the file.

 

[namelessentity]

It is a bustled Fiery on a 700 and 700i. This only happens with Illustrator graphics, not raster art. The first time I discovered it, I changed the art to greyscale black in Illustrator, replaced it in the layout, and it registered a black click. The art was very simple shapes traced in Illustrator, all solid black, no color at all. Just something weird.

I'd check your fiery settings. I haven't used fiery in a few years, but I recall there being something like "print black as rich black" or something along those lines. This link might help.
http://help.efi.com/cws/6.0/en-us/GUID-52B8D3D4-2D2D-459B-9AD0-5C1F8782B31E.html

 

[DYP]

No this is the setting you want for K only. http://help.efi.com/cws/6.0/en-us/GUID-96E84453-44BB-4F20-90E7-6E5F485D5F40.html