Recommend me quoting software

[gtcrshr]

Hi Guys,

Hope everyone is having an enjoyable start to 2017

We are a digital only print shop, with a fare amount of finishing machinery inhouse, sitting in between small and medium in size and volumes

We would like to try some quoting software to speed things up a bit,

Have tried morning flight, i dont find it particularly user friendly, (i dont have any comparisons but it might be worth looking into in depth) i have done a google and a lot comes up but i am looking for Digital print specific? if that exists ?

What recommendations do you have,

 

[Keith]

I've been using Morning Flight since 2008 and love it. Yes, it's interface is a bit dated and it did take me a couple of tries to get used to it and now I love it. They have a digital only version and are getting ready to release an updated version next month. I've always liked My Order Desk by PagePath. But they are more of a web2print with an optional estimating module rather than an estimator with a web2print module. Never used it but I did do a guided tour through their software.

 

[Morning Flight]

No Title

Thank you, Keith, for your ringing endorsement. I would be the first to agree with your comment about the interface being "a bit dated", but as you mentioned, change is on the way. Not just to the interface but to the whole Morning Flight way of pricing things digital. On the flip side, not much newsworthy to report on the offset front.

One of the really exciting by-products of the shift away from small press offset to digital is the concurrent movement away from cost-plus pricing to what the market will bear. As you know from my earlier posts on the PrintPlanet Forum over the years, I'm no fan of cost-plus. But with offset quality and price levels being all over the map, there was some justification. Not so for digital. Here, quality and price levels are much more uniform. A 2016-2017 digital pricing study by QP Consulting Inc. found that the average variation from one region of the country to the next is rarely more than 2-4%. That means market-based pricing not only makes eminent sense, it's downright easy for even the smaller shops.

It's easier for us, too. The realistic margins we'll be able to display in the upcoming V17.1 for digital would have been devoid of any valid base for offset. Too many wasted sheets littering the press room floor from one job to the next, and too much midnight oil producing them. Life is good!

http://quickconsultant.com/save-25-o...-publications/

 

[DYP]

I'll be very interested in trying out the Wide Format Pricing as it would be great to have this all in one package. When will a Demo be available?

 

[Morning Flight]

I'll be very interested in trying out the Wide Format Pricing as it would be great to have this all in one package. When will a Demo be available?

ETA - Q1. We're looking at weeks, not months. That's the best I can do for now, DYP. Thanks for asking.

http://www.printfire.com/discussion.html

 

[Yroc]

Seems like there should be an excel file for this...or someone should make one. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, we just have an Impressia with and estimation feature, but it's basically a spreadsheet and is only as good as the values we enter...

 

[Morning Flight]

No Title

Seems like there should be an excel file for this ... or someone should make one....

Not to appear sarcastic, Yroc, but should that excel file be built before or after that "someone" gets a life? I'm forever amazed by how many shop owners decide to go down the spreadsheet road, only to throw in the towel after having spent far too many hours building a simple x-up paper formula, hours that could have been put to better use selling printing. Eight years ago, I got tired listening and posted source code here, on this forum, to give DIY builders a leg up on their projects and shorten the misery:

https://printplanet.com/forum/prepre...g-up-per-sheet

That source code is still there, for anyone to use. And so is the Morning Flight starter edition that has that code built in. The edition is FREE, so why on earth would anyone want to reinvent the wheel with a Flintstone excel app?

We just have an Impressia with an estimation feature, but it's basically a spreadsheet and is only as good as the values we enter ...

That's true for all software, Yroc, ours included. There's an old saying in the industry: "Garbage in, garbage out." At their core, all estimating programs are glorified calculators. What sets them apart from spreadsheets isn't their greater ease of use through automation, it's their knowledge of market pricing. A spreadsheet can't tell you that the average price of a 3 x 6 foot banner on the American market is somewhere around a hundred dollars.

http://www.printfire.com/freestarteredition.html

 

[michaelejahn]

Estimating solutions can be a simple as a set of tables and some formulas, and it can be quite complex ( simple example, what about calculating required finishing tasks, makereadys / waste, etc.. )

I do not know about how "market pricing" helps - I guess trying to figure out "what your local market will bear" might be useful, but you probably know what it COSTS you to print a 3 x 6 foot banner - what you want to define as cost of course is complex as well, but the COST of a roll can be analysed quickly, what the *desired* markup may vary, but a good estimating system should let you see what "the man" says it COSTS so you can see just how low you can go should you trying to create a 'door opener" quote.

Also, what happens after you get the okay ?

Do you need to re-enter everything into your production system ? Some estimating system can generate text only, others XML and some systems are production system as well.

It is all up to you what problems you are trying to solve.

 

[Morning Flight]

... a good estimating system should let you see what "the man" says it COSTS so you can see just how low you can go should you trying to create a 'door opener" quote.

Color me dense, Michael, but who is that mystical "MAN" that can help us race to the bottom?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I don’t see “cost plus” as being incompatible with “market rate” or “market leading” or “what the market will bear” or any other pricing goal – the “plus” get’s you to the market or any other desired rate! Without knowing your true costs, how do you know if you should even try to compete against these market prices? If the market rate is below your cost…

The Accura MIS allows one to target a desired % markup value – or a desired % target profit value – or a % ‘value added’ target – or a unit price figure – or even a simple quantity/price “price list” matrix. In all cases, one can still see the cost vs. sell value! All of these pricing methods are further refined by calculating on the finished job quantity – or the area of single or double sides etc. And can be further shaped by specific “job types” with different defined break points to shape pricing.

From the Accura MIS website:

http://accuramis.com/why-the-correct...tant-c-316.php

http://accuramis.com/what-are-my-cost-rates-c-317.php


(Disclosure: I train and support our Accura MIS clients in the ANZ-ASIA-PAC regions).



Stephen Marsh

 

[kdw75]

We ended up going with Printers Plan. It ties into My Order Desk, which we already had. It isn't perfect, but it wasn't too expensive.

 

[Morning Flight]

We ended up going with Printers Plan. It ties into My Order Desk, which we already had. It isn't perfect, but it wasn't too expensive.

Good choice, kdw75, one of the better ones out there. Altogether, what's "not too expensive" for putting a print shop online these days? Somewhere around 3-5 grand a year I suspect?

My Order Desk costs a thousand a year in basic form, and I applaud them for letting everyone know. MIS pricing, on the other hand, that's hard to come by. Reminds me of the old days when browsing used car lots got you nothing more than: "Cream Puff! Let's talk - Come on in!"

I'd love to take a look at your site, if you don't mind sharing. Thank you.

Hal

 

[kdw75]

Good choice, kdw75, one of the better ones out there. Altogether, what's "not too expensive" for putting a print shop online these days? Somewhere around 3-5 grand a year I suspect?

My Order Desk costs a thousand a year in basic form, and I applaud them for letting everyone know. MIS pricing, on the other hand, that's hard to come by. Reminds me of the old days when browsing used car lots got you nothing more than: "Cream Puff! Let's talk - Come on in!"

I'd love to take a look at your site, if you don't mind sharing. Thank you.

Hal

We have a very basic version of My Order Desk. Most of our customers seem to have little interest in internet ordering. They want to use e-mail, phone, or have someone stop by.

wingprinting.com

 

[michaelejahn]

We have a very basic version of My Order Desk. Most of our customers seem to have little interest in internet ordering. They want to use e-mail, phone, or have someone stop by.

wingprinting.com

Wow. This statement is so odd - "Most of our customers seem to have little interest in internet ordering." hard to believe you have time to do that these days - 75% of our PressWise prospects come to us saying "our customers want to order online, we need a storefront".

 

[michaelejahn]

Color me dense, Michael, but who is that mystical "MAN" that can help us race to the bottom?

the MAN is the Owner and / or CFO - they would "know" ( or SHOULD know ) what it COSTS to produce something. unless you are trying to entice a new prospective customer with a low ball "get them to try us" price that is BELOW cost, my assumption here is that the sales and CSR types need to know "how low you can go' and treat that as the basement price, and you can't go below that. Margins should be displayed and your "this is the SELL PRICE" should be displayed as well ( in a proper estimating system ) -

Not sure i get your "race to the bottom" comment.

 

[DYP]

Anyone know what has happened to Morning Flight? One of the web sites seems to be functional but nothing about the new version with Wide Format that was promised months ago. Nothing on the other site. Sure hope it wasn’t bought out by one of the high price companies to stop competition like is so often done with small companies that offer good solutions at good prices.

I was hoping to be able to test the new version that offered digital press and wide format pricing in one package. The last information I can find is a couple of mouths old so I am starting to think that something has happened and I need to be looking elsewhere.

Anyone know of any other digital press and wide format pricing in one package solution at a reasonable price for small shops that is not online access using the web?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Anyone know of any other digital press and wide format pricing in one package solution at a reasonable price for small shops that is not online access using the web?

The Accura MIS fits these requirements – one solution, it is print method agnostic (litho, flexo, digital, screen, inkjet roll or flatbed etc) – self hosted or cloud, your choice. Of course “reasonable price” is a relative term.

http://accuramis.com


Stephen Marsh

 

[Manafaith]

We use Estimating Software called PowerQuote. Pretty in-expensive and handles everything from offset, digital and wide format and can even do your accounting but we don't use it for that. Seems to work pretty well once you get all of your specific info and rates entered in.

 

[Morning Flight]

Anyone know what has happened to Morning Flight? One of the web sites seems to be functional but nothing about the new version with Wide Format that was promised months ago. Nothing on the other site. Sure hope it wasn’t bought out by one of the high price companies to stop competition like is so often done with small companies that offer good solutions at good prices.

I was hoping to be able to test the new version that offered digital press and wide format pricing in one package. The last information I can find is a couple of months old so I am starting to think that something has happened and I need to be looking elsewhere.

Alive and well, DYP, and totally not for sale. We get approached now and then but have never been even remotely tempted to enter into negotiations. Morning Flight is a labor of love and will stay that way. We have close to 7,000 users worldwide and I wouldn't dream of abandoning a single one of them.

With that on the record, I concede that we haven't done much promoting lately. In fact, no promoting at all, and there's a reason for that. When we started talking about the new digital / wide format versions earlier this year, we got so flooded with requests for more information that answering all those requests cut into our development time. Progress reports were quickly restricted to the Discussion Page of our main website. Such as this posting of two days ago:

"We expect to release a public preview of the new Skypricer next week, hoping to get feedback on the market pricing generated for both digital and wide format. The Skypricer is a supercharged version of the Silver Edition, to which we've added pricing for web2print. That program will not be the ideal Morning Flight edition for everyone but will show what's in store with the upcoming V17.1. All but the free starter will come with wide format and tiered click charges."

http://www.printfire.com/discussion.html

If you're on our mailing list, DYP, look for our November FlyBy. It will be the first in a while, and for that I apologize.

Hal Heindel