Ricoh C5200s / KM AccurioPress 2070 / Canon Imagepress C710

[BBCCTOR]

Hi Everyone,

I am hoping you can help to provide some extra information or advice for a printer upgrade I am working on.

We currently use a Ricoh C5100s for printing labels and cardstock (100# CVR). It has been working well for our labels, but on the cardstock we have issues with jamming and colour consistency, especially on full colour images. We also do not seem to have great colour control with our Fiery E22B (changes to the spot colour seem to have limited impact to the actual on paper result, even after working with Ricoh training).

We are looking to upgrade our machine in order to solve these issues and move to a heavier stock (14pt or 16pt SBS) for printing of short run boxes. We are not a print shop so all of our jobs are in house projects and anything major we will outsource. This also means that our speeds are not super important to us, quality is more important. Our budget for this is on the low end so we are looking at some new and some old off-lease machines that we can place onto service contracts.

Here are the 3 machines we are currently looking at and wondering what advice or experience you can provide if you think they will work well for the heavier 14/16pt stocks. We will have an LCT for all of these options as well. I am curious mostly about print & colour quality, jamming (a big pain in our C5100s), overall machine experience, and longevity. I am hoping to get 5 years out of this machine and I know these aren't the newest technologies to begin with. Cost is slightly higher for us on the new Canon C710 but overall comparable between the three. We are in a major city so service seems to be comparable from all vendors.

Ricoh C5200s with External Fiery (used, low clicks)
KM AccurioPress 2070 with External Fiery (used, low clicks)
Canon Imagepress C710 with Onboard Fiery (new)

Last question - The Canon & KM say they can autoduplex up to 350gsm while the Ricoh is manual duplex.... in your experience how much operator time is saved by auto-duplexing? It seems like it could be a major bonus, but wondering what you all think?

Thanks very much for any input you can give!
PS - If you have any other suggestions I am all ears

 

[Shawnd]

For 16pt I would look at the 7200, I run 16pt C2S on mine from time to time and the registration once calibrated is pretty much spot on for duplex, a huge time saver.

 

[BBCCTOR]

Thanks Sean. We might be priced out of the 7200 but I'll check in with my sales rep.

 

[Sertech]

I would say if you're thinking about the canon, go with the prismaSync over the fiery. They now have a prismaSync light that's lower in cost, has fewer features. Color and registration control is better on the prismaSync, plus it can print further out on the page. For some reason the fiery maintains a blanking that you can't get around

 

[Ynot_UK]

Run a couple of thousand sheets of labels on each machine, then make your decision. It’s the labels that are likely to cause issues. Also check the CED for the labels substrate you’re using.

 

[Puch]

The KM C2070 is a strong contender, but you might get headaches to put it on a service contract with Konica. Also, it has rather tight curves in the paper path, so the fibers of your stock will be broken. You put some stiff, heavy paper into the feeder, and the result is a flexible, bent printout. For box production you need a machine with a straight(ish) paper path, and that's the Ricoh.

 

[BBCCTOR]

The KM C2070 is a strong contender, but you might get headaches to put it on a service contract with Konica. Also, it has rather tight curves in the paper path, so the fibers of your stock will be broken. You put some stiff, heavy paper into the feeder, and the result is a flexible, bent printout. For box production you need a machine with a straight(ish) paper path, and that's the Ricoh.

Thanks for the input. I am getting it direct from Konica so the contract shouldn't be a problem, but the paper path may be an issue. I will definitely keep a close eye on that in testing.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm surprised that they're pitching the 5200 model when it's the 5300 that's been out for quite a while already, though I'm not sure about Canada.

It's spec'd for automatic duplexing up to 13”x19.2” with weights up to 360 gsm (way over 100# cover).
I would also recommend the E-47B Fiery with the Graphic Arts Pro package so that you'll have tons of color management options but even without them this model is much improved over the 51s and 52s.
(disclaimer - I work for Ricoh).

 

[BBCCTOR]

I'm surprised that they're pitching the 5200 model when it's the 5300 that's been out for quite a while already, though I'm not sure about Canada.

It's spec'd for automatic duplexing up to 13”x19.2” with weights up to 360 gsm (way over 100# cover).
I would also recommend the E-47B Fiery with the Graphic Arts Pro package so that you'll have tons of color management options but even without them this model is much improved over the 51s and 52s.
(disclaimer - I work for Ricoh).

The 5300 has been out for a while and your suggestion would make sense if I had the budget, but the reason we are looking at the 5200 is due to budgetary constraints. If we could have afforded the 5300 that would have been an easy decision

Do you feel the 5200 is still a big jump over the 5100?

 

[[email protected]]

The 5300 has been out for a while and your suggestion would make sense if I had the budget, but the reason we are looking at the 5200 is due to budgetary constraints. If we could have afforded the 5300 that would have been an easy decision

Do you feel the 5200 is still a big jump over the 5100?

Ok, I see. I wouldn't call it a big jump but there are a lot of incremental improvements over the 5100-series including: Easier programming for advanced paper options/can have up to 200 custom paper entries/optional media identification unit/it's a quieter machine/supports more types of papers with an increased master library/better paper registration and less skewing/80% larger waste toner bottle/handles envelopes better/improved booklet maker options/better solids on textured medias/ 360gsm simplex & 300gsm duplex inc. coated.

 

[BBCCTOR]

Ok, I see. I wouldn't call it a big jump but there are a lot of incremental improvements over the 5100-series including: Easier programming for advanced paper options/can have up to 200 custom paper entries/optional media identification unit/it's a quieter machine/supports more types of papers with an increased master library/better paper registration and less skewing/80% larger waste toner bottle/handles envelopes better/improved booklet maker options/better solids on textured medias/ 360gsm simplex & 300gsm duplex inc. coated.

This biggest thing would be better solids and less jamming. Have they changed the feed system through the bypass or LCT at all on the 5200 vs the 5100?

 

[[email protected]]

This biggest thing would be better solids and less jamming. Have they changed the feed system through the bypass or LCT at all on the 5200 vs the 5100?

They made improvements to the AC Transfer & Elastic Fusing Belt for better fill.
There were a few other improvements such as a new paper transfer system that was more like its bigger brothers in the 7100/9100 systems for more different stocks and less skewing, and this new thing called “Friction” for paper tray 2, 3 and bypass tray added to intentionally shift the media and adjust to the appropriate position by registration roller and the rear side of the paper pass. Automatic nip width adjustment for less envelope wrinkling.

Naturally, as others here would say I'd encourage you to get a hands-on demo if you can, either at a demo room or perhaps a customer site.

Oh yeah, one more thing, the main paper drawer will not open until you've cleared the paths into and out of the main section so as to prevent jams from pulling out the drawer prematurely.

 

[BBCCTOR]

They made improvements to the AC Transfer & Elastic Fusing Belt for better fill.
There were a few other improvements such as a new paper transfer system that was more like its bigger brothers in the 7100/9100 systems for more different stocks and less skewing, and this new thing called “Friction” for paper tray 2, 3 and bypass tray added to intentionally shift the media and adjust to the appropriate position by registration roller and the rear side of the paper pass. Automatic nip width adjustment for less envelope wrinkling.

Naturally, as others here would say I'd encourage you to get a hands-on demo if you can, either at a demo room or perhaps a customer site.

Oh yeah, one more thing, the main paper drawer will not open until you've cleared the paths into and out of the main section so as to prevent jams from pulling out the drawer prematurely.

That's great info. Thanks for spending the time to reply.

 

[rogue]

I would say if you're thinking about the canon, go with the prismaSync over the fiery. They now have a prismaSync light that's lower in cost, has fewer features. Color and registration control is better on the prismaSync, plus it can print further out on the page. For some reason the fiery maintains a blanking that you can't get around

Those Canon prismasync controllers are cool. Color control & consistency is better than Fiery. You gotta get used to it because it’s different.

 

[muelli75]

We use a KM AccurioPress 3080 for 4.75 years - an excellent printer. We print autoduplex up to 350g - sometimes there is a jam, but most time the printer do what it should do: printing.
On some media there is a very bad static load possible. The registration is suitable. Good to service (if you want).

Since three years we have ca Canon Imagepress 810. The worst machine ever.
Bad paperload (very bad), poor colorstability, buggy PrismaSync-Controller, bad for operators who want to fix some minor qualityproblems. But good registration.

Now we have to buy a new press - I am sure, we dont buy another Canon.

 

[Sertech]

We use a KM AccurioPress 3080 for 4.75 years - an excellent printer. We print autoduplex up to 350g - sometimes there is a jam, but most time the printer do what it should do: printing.
On some media there is a very bad static load possible. The registration is suitable. Good to service (if you want).

Since three years we have ca Canon Imagepress 810. The worst machine ever.
Bad paperload (very bad), poor colorstability, buggy PrismaSync-Controller, bad for operators who want to fix some minor qualityproblems. But good registration.

Now we have to buy a new press - I am sure, we dont buy another Canon.

If you're having all those problems with the 850, I'm going to say your service isn't very good. The prismaSync controller shouldn't be buggy, and with 1 click you should be able to see the image about to be printed. Color adjustments are another click from that. In fact what you see on your touchscreen should be what comes out. If not, either the machine isn't calibrated or something is wrong. I would say paper registration is the weakest part of that machine